A new buying philosophy--only significant pedigreed coins

I have been collecting and investing in coins for half a century and have a large portion of my net worth in numismatics. I have never been able to interest my son in numismatics, so I plan to fund a goodly portion of my retirement from the sale of coins in my collection.

I have enjoyed the hobby aspects and, like most, I have had many good experiences over the years. Sure, I made some mistakes, but I believe in live and learn. I have developed "first name" relationships with many dealers, both large and small, and always enjoy chatting with them at local and national coin shows.

The new, very deceptive fakes gravely concern me, Many dealers share this concern. Some of you will recognize me as the person that has been harping on the TPGs for years about a meaningful guaranty of authenticity to protect collectors and keep the TPGs ever vigilant. The major TPG responded positively after receiving some pressure from major dealers (at my prompting), but that doesn't help me sleep a whole lot better.

Well, I have adjusted my buying to focus on slabbed coins with provenience that can be traced back for decades to further "protect" against fakes. As an example, a recent purchase was this coin:






It is the Eliasberg/Clapp piece that can be traced back to the turn of the century (1900s), with the following pedigree "Ex: Charles Morris Collection (S.H. and H. Chapman, 4/1905); J.M. Clapp; John H. Clapp; Clapp Estate (1942); Louis E. Eliasberg, Sr.; Eliasberg Estate (Bowers and Merena, 5/1996), lot 408.From The Pasadena Collection, Part Two"

The coin is documented in Bowers' book on Eliasberg, and undoubetedly is the "real deal" and always will be recognized as such. While nothing is beyond the reach of the counterfeiters, to duplicate this well-documented coin one would have to have access to it and I own it!

From here on out, I plan to limit my purchases to solid coins with a verifiable history instead of merely buying a bunch of "stuff". This should help build a collection of historic, meaningful pedigreed coins with authenticity that is relatively beyond reproach. It also will restrain my past practice of always buying "something" when I go to a coin show or auction. I already have too many "widgets".

Your thoughts and comments are welcome.

 

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Pedigree's gonna cost you. Sometimes there's nothing more enjoyable than a loveable mutt.....

 

Collect as you please, of course. But only buying pedigreed coins out of fear of buying counterfeits sounds like a huge overreaction to me. There are countless non-pedigreed coins which are quite easy to authenticate as genuine. And if you buy only pedigreed coins you are greatly limiting your options and likely missing out on many wonderful opportunities.

 

Maybe that's a good thing--find a niche!

 

I agree.

 

To each his own, but you are really narrowing down the possibilities. There are a lot of beautiful coins out there without a distinguished lineage of ownership.

On the other hand, I don't own any Eliasbergs and owning one of those would be pretty cool.

 

As a "green" newbie I am well aware one day I will discover that my prized pick for this months budget will be shown to you folks and gingerly you will inform me I have purchased a fake and not a jewel at all. When that happens, and it will despite all my efforts, I will laugh and realize I am only human interested in a hobby where counterfeits can occur but I choose to collect anyway.

 

We have a different mindset. I am always mad as hell when I am victimized.

You would laugh? When you gamble, are you a good loser too?

To me, this counterfeit thing is verrrrry serious business.

 

I think in doing so, you are isolating yourself from the best aspect of the hobby. Potential for new discoveries of varieties and errors, which have been overlooked by the TPG"s from time to time or collector/dealers.

 

Obviously, you have put a lot of thought into this before making the decision. I think it's a great idea and I'll bet you end up with a very enviable collection. Make sure you keep the pedigree paperwork chain going. Good luck and have fun.

 

While I wouldn't go as far as the thread originator, I agree that counterfeits are a serious and growing concern. At some point it may cause me to leave the hobby. At the moment, there is a long and growing list of coins that I will not buy, slabbed or raw, from unknown sellers on Ebay.

For a couple of decades, the major grading companies have been a good defense against fakes. What has changed recently is that there are now fake slabs as well. That makes for a multi-threat:
1) fake coins being sent into the grading companies and passing muster
2) fake coins being put into fake slabs
3) real coins placed in fake slabs at a higher grade

Fakes coins and fake slabs are being sold openly on Ebay and other venues. A few are found and caught, many likely find new homes with unsuspecting victims. Some of the fake slabs are discovered because the fakes have minor flaws in font or spacing. Those kind of mistakes are easy to correct and likely have already been fixed for current production runs.

There was a magazine article about high quality fakes offered at a major show. More than half the dealers were willing buyers. Many that refused the coins were tipped off as word got around the bourse that there was a test being done.

 

I might be able to get one pedigreed coin if I sold my entire collection of 'widgets.' I am a widget collector and proud of it.

 

I saw that article in Coin World and it scared the beejeezus out of me! A fake Lafayette dollar fooled many of the professionals at a show.

I will do whatever I can to protect myself from the counterfeiter's fraud. Pedigreed coins may be one relative safe avenue--are there others?

 

how big is you mattress? and how many bedrooms do you have?

 

I think you said it best. I can only see buying pedigree coins if you are willing to pay the premium some of them demand. The only 100% sure way of not getting a fake is to not buy period. I think I will stick with the way I am collecting. Just watching the Revier coins was enough to turn me off from pedigree coins. Over graded and over priced in my opinion.

 

Last week at the ANA Summer Seminar I attended a 2-day class on The Chinese Counterfeit Threat that was taught by Beth Deisher (Coin World editor). I saw that Lafayette Dollar that fooled several dealers at the FUN show and I must say that, while it was a decent counterfeit, it should not fool any dealer (or collector for that matter) that knows anything about counterfeit detection. I noticed several raised bumps on the reverse in front of the horse's rear foot.

 

Would it fool a TPG? That is why they should offer a meaningful guaranty of authenticity--so that they do their very best to detect fakes and hire graders that also are competent authenticators!

 

I am "old school". If it is not a red Book variety, I am not interested, THe VAMs and such, just don't float my boat.

 

This philosophy is only viable as long as the dealer is still in business.

If the dealer is out of business or dead 10 years later--you are SOL

I'll take a century old pedigree any day.