E-bay the "FAIR" way to buy and sell.... WHAT BS!

Terrific! Thanks for the background and invite. I'm impressed with your initiative to take a negative (eBay/PayPal) and make something better for the coin & currency community. I've bookmarked your site and will be checking it out. :thumb:

 

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Has anyone read my first post? would like an answer to the question. Thanks.

 

"When a seller only accepts Pay Pal, are the sellers money already collected and deposited into the sellers bank account before shipping occurs ?"

Current eBay policy only allows Sellers to collect funds/payments from Buyers using PayPal. The money is deposited into a Sellers PayPal account first by the buyer (then a Seller will ship) then with a balance in PayPal the Seller can withdraw or transfer funds in several ways. You do not need any money in the PayPal account to be a Seller once registered and bank account and address verified to conduct sales. Anyone with a balance in their PayPal account can transfer funds to their bank account, use a PayPal debit card or request a physical check be mailed to them with the funds, or you could spend the money in your account elsewhere buying something else with the funds. As soon as the money is in your PayPal account you can start moving it or using it. If you haven't shipped an item to a Buyer or they dispute the item later and the money is out of the PayPal account PayPal cannot directly withdraw the money from your bank account. Nothing really prevents a Seller from moving or using the money collected from Buyers once the transfer of funds is complete and this could all be done prior to shipping the item, prior to the item arriving or a dispute arising over said item. Does that answer your question?

Anyone else have any other angles to point out that I didn't consider?

 

No, The seller has to transfer the money into there bank account if they so wish to do so. I leave the money in my paypal account till after I print all of the shipping labels and then I transfer the money to a different bank account that is not linked to my paypal account. Read my post about them freezing my paypal account. I used to only transfer money once a month but after this whole thing I do it a lot more now.

I don't sell raw coins besides modern coins and I never had a problem with them. I mainly sell slabbed coins and I get a few people that want to return the coin and I usually let them just because I think it is the right thing to do, remember the buyer is always right. The returns for slabbed coins is very low and I never use stock photo's, that way the buyer knows what she/he is buying.

 

If a dispute is settled in the buyers favor, paypal can negate (if the money has been transfered out) your paypal balance to reflect the money it is refunding to the buyer. They will also attempt to pull the owed amount from your credit card and bank account attached to your paypal.


I am not sure (since Paypal is part of Ebay now) if they can suspend your selling privlidges as well, but it would not surprise me.

 

That sounds a bit like stopping payment on a check (which usually costs money itself) and by the time PayPal would have ruled in favor of reimbursing a Buyer, those funds could already have been spent and/or the account linked to PayPal emptied by moving that money elsewhere. The negative PayPal account could be seized but by that time the damage would have been done. Have you had any experience on how this works or how far PayPal can take their claim to the funds? Seems like a Seller can dispute or lock their account via their bank or in court over an issue as well.

 

My friend sold something to someone in Canada, and did not use tracking because of the inflated cost. The buyer put in a claim via paypal that he never received the item, they found in his favor and Paypal took the money back right out of his bank account, which gave him a negative balance causing him bank overdraft fees because he did not have enough in his account to cover it.

 

I am not sure as I have only had 1 claim filed against me and the buyer later canceled the claim as he got his coin.

I have filled a few claims for not getting something and I have always got my money back but I don't know how the whole thing works. I know Paypal offers buyer protection so maybe paypal gives you the money back and then they work on getting the money from the seller.

 

I wasn't aware that PayPal had the authority to directly debit your bank account tied to your PayPal account without authorization from the PayPal member tied to that bank account, like when you purchase an item using PayPal but your PayPal funds are too low to pay the entire amount, then the PayPal system defaults to your bank account tied to the PayPal account and the remaining funds are withdrawn. It seems that any such action by PayPal could get them into deeper legal issues with that member should the member file a claim in court against PayPal for ruling unfairly and withdrawing funds from a bank account plus causing that Seller to incur further bank related fees and hardships. Something doesn't add up in this story. Is there a policy in PayPal's T&C you can point to that explains this situation?

 

Well they do, and did in my friend's case. As a result, if I ever sell on ebay it is only to a buyer in The USA and always with signature confirmation. At least I am somewhat more covered in that way.

 

The only thing I would change is that the auction would extend 5 minutes from the last bid (i.e. eliminate sniping). I have never understood who benefits by allowing sniping -- the seller could have gotten a higher price and the buyer could have gotten his item for maybe a few bucks more. As it is you have to determine the max price you would pay for something but isn't the point of an auction to use the excitement of the setting to bid the price up? There was a site called onsale that used the no sniping model and I liked it better.

Other than that, I agree, no problem. eBay sure beats trying to deal with a crooked coin dealer. Not that they are all crooked but eBay supplies the tools to keep things fair -- true pricing, conflict resolution etc.

 

Wow great post. I just learned a lot of good stuff. So is the consensus thtat Paypal can steal back your money from your own account? Has anyone else had this experience?

 

Wow great post. I just learned a lot of good stuff. So is the consensus thtat Paypal can steal back your money from your own account? Has anyone else had this experience?

 

They can also freeze your account if they decide they don't like what you are selling but it's unlikely they would have a problem with coins. I am also not crazy about having a record of every coin I have puchased but I would have lost over $1500 one time had I not used them so I live with it.

 

I've seen no evidence that PayPal can directly without your consent, or that of a court order, debit a person's bank account that is linked to their PayPal account. A buyer's recovery seems limited to the amount of money that PayPal can recover from the seller’s PayPal account only.

 

Actually, having a record of your purchases is a great service and it is accessible in your PayPal account history. It can be of significant assistance for placing an insurance claim experience a loss or theft, need to quickly calculate your spending or insure a collection in your home owners or renters replacement policy or if you are shipping items. History also acts like a receipt which is of help if you do business and need to calculate inventory and taxes. You can download history in various formats to your computer and save your own inventory. Saves a lot of time doing data input yourself.

 

Did you read the User Agreement for Paypal service when you signed up!
http://www.paypalsucks.com/PayPal-ToS-Jan2002.txt

I will highlight some part for you.

ie. Paypal will withdraw the money from your account

 

Yes they will! As I said it happened to my friend. He got double wacked, the money AND the item, and of course the overdraft charges incurred because he had already withdrawn the money physically from his bank account.

 

They spell it our several places in the user agreement.


3.5 Bank Transfers. When Instant Transfer or eCheck is used as your Payment Source, or when you initiate an Add Funds transaction, you are requesting an electronic transfer from your bank account. For these transactions, PayPal will make electronic transfers via ACH from your bank account in the amount you specify. You agree that such requests constitute your authorization to PayPal to make the transfers, and once you have provided your authorization for the transfer, you will not be able cancel the electronic transfer. You give PayPal the right to resubmit any ACH debit you authorized that is returned for insufficient or uncollected funds.

1. Payments received in your PayPal account may be reversed at a later time for example, if such a payment is subject to a Chargeback, Reversal, Claim or otherwise invalidated. This means that for some of our sellers, payments received into their Account may be returned to the sender or otherwise removed from their Account after they have been paid and/or delivered any goods or services sold.

1. 4.5 Risk of Reversals, Chargebacks and Claims. When you receive a payment, you are liable to PayPal for the full amount of the payment plus any Fees if the payment is later invalidated for any reason. This means that, in addition to any other liability, you will be responsible for the amount of the payment, plus the applicable Fees listed in section 8 of this Agreement if you lose a Claim or a Chargeback, or if there is a Reversal of the payment.You agree to allow PayPal to recover any amounts due to PayPal by debiting your Balance. If there are insufficient funds in your Balance to cover your liability, you agree to reimburse PayPal through other means. If a sender of a payment files a Chargeback, the credit card issuer, not PayPal, will determine who wins the Chargeback.

11.3 What happens when a buyer files a Claim, Chargeback, or Reversal?

1. PayPal will place a temporary hold on the funds in your account to cover the full amount of the Claim, Chargeback, or Reversal. If the payment is covered by seller protection, we will release the hold and restore your access to the funds.
   If the payment is not covered by seller protection, PayPal will remove the funds from your account and return the payment to the buyer. In addition, you will be responsible for PayPal’s Chargeback Fee, if applicable.

 

Points taken.