Crazy Auction Price IMO

This was a disturbing price for this coin as even though it was Proof 67 is a coin that was minted to the tune of 2600 with all being saved. Glad I was not the buyer!!

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

I would never pay that for that coin. I can think of many other coins I would buy with $99,000.

 

That much money would buy me a nice half disme.

 

In PR67 that's probably a reasonable price. Regardless of mintage, it's way more scarce than either the 1887 or 1902 issues of the same denomination.

 

Yikes, compared to other Brit coins, I would say not. The 1887 is def. more scarce, and in particular in "67". None-the-less, other coins such as the 1905 half crown in even 65 is far more rare with more interested collectors overall with many other examples that could be trotted out.

PCGS has two 1911's in 67, six in 66 including a 66+, with forty-five in 65, total 213
PCGS has ZERO 1902's in 67, one in 66, NONE in 65, total graded 235
PCGS has ZERO 1887's in 67, two in 66, two in 65, total graded 85

In point of fact, most of the 1902s are far lower in grade so actually at higher grades is much scarcer and as can be seen there is NO comparo with the 1887.

Many 1911's however remain in sets, and moreso than the other two dates for whatever reason.
But the overriding point is that regardless, many who have known the Brit market for many years shake their head at the crazy price that are achieved, and also know that there are many, many coins that are ungraded and have never been submitted.
The relative value IMO is patently ridiculous, when compared with coins far more rare with established markets. Coins like the OP have gotten pumped up to what are probably very unreasonable levels.

 

PCGS is hardly the arbiter of rarity on world coins, without including NGC census numbers it doesn't mean much.

In any case, it's a reasonable price and well within what these have been trading for in Superb Gem and above. The example you posted sold 10 months ago for $82,500 hammer. A more recent example in 66 sold for $50k (60k all-in) about 3 weeks ago, suggesting that 99k all-in is probably about right on the 67. If you look at the 1893 Victoria 5 Pound in similar grade, about the same price action going back several years ago.

 

And I did not suggest they were, only that was one place that someone could get a relative idea of studied populations - please do read that post carefully. And my point was NOT that this was isolated, but rather that this is a trend that has some disturbing and unbalanced (relative to other series and rarities) prices of late, and your enclosure supports. In fact, the OP coin served only as an example.
However on second thought that you chose to go there, you were in fact mistaken about the relative scarcity of the 1911 when compared to an earlier 5 pounds such as the 1887, or the 1902 in higher grade.

 

I never mentioned scarcity in higher grade, just that it was much more scarce than the other dates. Mainly because the 1911 was a proof-only issue unlike the 1887 and 1902 coins which included tens of thousands struck for circulation.

 

That sounds like far too much and a couple thousand sounds more like a proper price level. However, it is entirely possible that for some reason this coin is rarely found nice and someone was trying to complete a set. There's also the problem that there will probably never be much demand for such common gold coins. If there is then British gold will certainly be among the most desirable.

Until I look for "common" coins I rarely know whether I can find them or not. More and more it seems pricing in general and price guides in particular say nothing at all about supply and everything at all about demand.

 

Interesting. Thanks.

These markets sure have evolved a lot in the last 40 years.

 

Yes, very scary IMO.

However, what brought the price was NOT other than the coin itself and the apparent scarcity of condition (which might be overrated).
Since condition is the major factor in this case, it would of necessity be a part of the discussion and thus the import of the point. Not particularly related are the number of currency pieces - which tend to be of lower quality and grade and have been seen to NOT appreciably affect the value of the proofs.

BTW, should there be doubt as to the importance of condition with the cited example, then please compare its price to those of lower or average condition.

 

Stupid high prices for negligible differences in subjective opinions of grade is a fool’s errand.

Competitive registry sets may be good for the TPG bottom lines, but they are a dangerous place to get caught up in the hubbub for collectors.

I have seen many a coin nicer than the supposed “best” across dozens if not hundreds of series. These ego contests are a rarefied air space I try to avoid.

 

Most bidders at this level have so much money it doesn't matter. At least not to them. Kind of like the photo going around the internet a couple years ago of the 100 year-old guy cutting his wedding cake with his gorgeous 27 year-old bride. The caption read "Everyone tells me she married me for my money. Like I care".

 

More money than brains seems to be a fairly common affliction.

 

I've seen worse. $364,250 for a 1938-S Mercury Dime comes to mind.

 

Buwhahahaha!! Agreed, I can think of a 1958 half-dollar that fits the same profile. What's amazing about most of the really desirable British gold, it may move sideways at times, but it almost never goes down. I only wish some of my 20th century Italian gold coins would have held-up as well. Granted I don't have a lot of them, but there are a couple like the 1911-R Italy 50 Lire that are the same price 20 years after I bought it.

 

The thing is this, had that British George V 5 Pounds been sold via Kunker as "stempelglanz"=UNC/ I can guarantee it would have gone for less then 25K. Also a Kunker st.=MS-67. I bought a European graded "fast st."=about UNC/ AV 1811-A 20 Francs for 900 euros. I ended having it slabbed for the fun of it....ended up MS-66/ and that coin would go for 3X what I paid. TPG grades of MS are only considered as
FDC/ SC/ MintState/ in UK/Europe when they are MS-67/68/69
Even if that 5 Pounds was MS-70 it was a crazy price to pay.

 

The way I see it, much of the most desirable world coin material is still well below the prices that comparable American coins trade at. Even if this price seems high to some, compared to the astronomical valuations seen elsewhere in the US market, it may be downright reasonable.

 

Well, I hear your response however it is a different market and different supply/demand characteristics. Also, relative to other Brit issues with more established demand patterns and significantly more rarity it appears out of context.
If I had one (and only have a proof sov of that date & not tried for the others ever), I would be wanting to sell if I knew I could reproduce that price.
Somewhat back to the point, as this is not the US market, then such assumptions might be put aside, even though it is true that coins can be had of similar apparent scarcity for much lower prices...Although a silver coin, I will post a picture of a coin known only from a single example, very attractive and obviously a proof as well - and the price likely would not be nearly as high (well not cheap I am sure).
Paranthetically, you might note that even though reaching the "67" level that the coin is not cameo or ultra cameo - but that is a small point.

 

Agree completely. The US market is a circus when viewed from the perspective of Registry Set influence on prices realized.

Also agree that raw world coins generally don't do as well in Europe as slabbed world coins in the super high grades do here in the US. We'll never know what it would have sold for at Kunker raw because they didn't sell the coin, Heritage did and it was in a slab. Many (most?) European collectors have nothing but contempt for third party grading. Or as Richard Ponterio once put it: "The Swiss will never use 3rd party grading because the Swiss didn't invent it, and if it isn't Swiss why would anyone want it?"