My kind of Morgan..

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by Mark Feld, Jul 12, 2009.

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  1. Leadfoot

    Leadfoot there is no spoon

    Thanks Mark. Just wanted to get some insight into how the "Mark Feld Eye" works. :)
     
    Leadfoot, Jul 13, 2009
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  3. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Nahhhhhh - there'd be at least 2 :D

    Honestly Mike I expect I would agree with the grade of a lot of them, probably even most of them. Now I would qualify that statement by saying that I would expect most of them had been graded longer than 2 years ago. From among those graded in the last 2 years, yeah, you're probably right.
     
    GDJMSP, Jul 13, 2009
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  4. Mark Feld

    Mark Feld Rare coin dealer

    My guess would be that the overall quality of those graded within the past two years is better than that of 2+ years ago. And that applies to most coin types. I think overall, grading has been somewhat tighter during the past 2 years than it was for at least a few years prior to that.
     
    Mark Feld, Jul 13, 2009
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  5. Vess1

    Vess1 CT SP VIP Supporter

    Stunning coin. I wonder why there are so many toned 1881-S's? They seem to make up a large majority of what I run across.

    Heritage has some awesome coins. I just hate the idea of the buyer's premium, regardless if people do factor it in to the bid and the fact that the auctions are sooooo loooong. I guess if there's something really nice like this Morgan that you just have to have, it would be worth waiting 30 days for. Their quality level blows Ebay away.
     
    Vess1, Jul 13, 2009
    #24 + Quote Reply
  6. Mark Feld

    Mark Feld Rare coin dealer

    The 1881-S issue is abundant and many of the toned ones are the result of storage in bags. Why did you indicate that you need to wait 30 days (for the auction coins)? That's not the case with Heritage or other auctions.
     
    Mark Feld, Jul 13, 2009
    #25 + Quote Reply
  7. the_man12

    the_man12 Amateur Photographer

    I think he was saying that the auctions are really long.
     
    the_man12, Jul 13, 2009
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  8. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Mark my point is this, based on what I have seen, during the past 2 years both NGC and PCGS have been more lenient in their grading. But it has primarily been for 1 reason IMO - the value aspect. In other words, grades were being bumped to reflect an increase in value and for no other reason.

    Now I will grant you that in the past few months especially, a lot of people are reporting that the TPG's have tightened up because of CAC. Now maybe that is true, and maybe it is not - I honestly don't know because trends in grading are more easily recognized some time after they started than they are when they first start. And as you well know, if one reads the forums, submitters are constantly saying that the TPG's are looser or tighter on almost a weekly basis, which I think is rediculous by the way.

    Now you, having been a grader for NGC, undoubtably know better than rest of us what the actual happenings are in regard to whether or not the TPG's actually do adjust their grading standards and direct their employees to follow those adjusted standards. Or whether any seeming fluctuation in standards is just the result of ambiguity on the part of the graders themselves. (sure would be nice if you would answer that question) Myself, I can only base my opinions on results and what I see at any given point in time.

    Now I try to keep up with the changes in slab design as much as the next person, probably more so than most, with the notable exception of Conder of course. But it has been my experience that newly graded coins, whether they be the result of a coin being graded for the very first time or they are the result of a re-submission, are typically seen by the public quite soon after they slabbed. Now they may be seen at a dealer's shop, on the bourse or an auction first, but almost always they are seen on one of the various forums very soon thereafter that being displayed by their proud new owners. Of course coins that reside in older slabs are also seen quite often, but they are even more readily recognized as being in those older slabs. So it's not too hard to pin down within a reasonable time frame as to when that given coin was actually slabbed.

    Now all of this is the reason for what I say. And in my opinion it is among the coins that have been graded in the past 2 years or so that I find the majority of those that I consider overgraded. And it is really not too hard to prove that to oneself. For all you have to do is go back through auction records to see the trend, for the dates of the auctions make it obvious as to what the slabbing date limitation is.

    Now you disagree with my outlook, that's fine. But realize that I don't just base my opinion on an ambiguous feeling. I base it on what the record actually reflects.
     
    GDJMSP, Jul 14, 2009
    #27 + Quote Reply
  9. Mark Feld

    Mark Feld Rare coin dealer

    Doug, it seems that we simply have different opinions and perceptions about grading over the past couple of years, based on what we each look at. And that's not really too surprising, considering that we don't walk up and down the aisles at coin shows together, looking at the same population of coins.

    That said, most of the larger dealer submitters I have talked to firmly believe that overall, grading at the big two has tightened during the past couple of years. I don't know how much, if any of that is attributable to CAC and/or market conditions. The bottom line is that, unless we have very large/statistically significant samples of coins that were graded years ago, and again more recently, we have no way of knowing how/whether grading has changed. And all we can do is report what we we observe, think and hear from others.
     
    Mark Feld, Jul 14, 2009
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  10. Cloudsweeper99

    Cloudsweeper99 Treasure Hunter

    This has been a very informative discussion of grading. Thanks everyone for sharing. It really highlights some of the difficulties we amateurs face in getting it right.
     
    Cloudsweeper99, Jul 14, 2009
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  11. Breakdown

    Breakdown Member

    [
    That said, most of the larger dealer submitters I have talked to firmly believe that overall, grading at the big two has tightened during the past couple of years. I don't know how much, if any of that is attributable to CAC and/or market conditions. The bottom line is that, unless we have very large/statistically significant samples of coins that were graded years ago, and again more recently, we have no way of knowing how/whether grading has changed. And all we can do is report what we we observe, think and hear from others.[/quote]

    My own recent experience with PCGS tell me that you are right, Mark. Can't say about NGC as I don't submit coins to them. I think it would be naive to think CAC didn't have something to do with this tightening.
     
    Breakdown, Jul 14, 2009
    #30 + Quote Reply
  12. illini420

    illini420 1909 Collector

    pretty coin and I agree that even without the toning it would be an excellent coin. very clean cheek on Liberty :)
     
    illini420, Jul 15, 2009
    #31 + Quote Reply
  13. A.Z.MARK

    A.Z.MARK New Member

    edited, love the color
     
    A.Z.MARK, Jul 18, 2009
    #32 + Quote Reply
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