I agree 100%. Appeal to people's FEARs. That's what will work in a soft market. Make people scared NOT to go to you. According to them, if you get something for less than way over catalog, you bought a dog. What else would you expect a dealer to say?
I think the point is the tone of the article you provided a link to. It is from a dealer that is working in a soft market. There will be sub-par coins in hot and cold markets. You just hear about them in cold markets because anything will fly off the shelves in a hot market. This dealer also deals in really high level coins and it is very easy to read it and apply it to your situation - which might be hunting down F/VF barber dimes. Two different things entirely. In fact, I'm guessing, that the vast majority of CoinTalk members do not purchase coins of the level this writer is talking about. Always consider the source. "In the Kingdom of blind people, the one-eyed man is king"
The point of the article I was trying to get acrossed and get folks' opinion on is: Is there any price too cheap for a 'problem' coin....
I have given this a little more thought since yesterday, so with tongue firmly in cheek I offer this solution to the problem of there being so much "drek" out there. I propose an organization that would get rid of low end and problem coins by sending them to be melted down for bullion. The organization would be called CRS, for coin retirement service, and would be pronounced kisses, like kiss old worn coins goodbye. To rid the world of low end coins, we must start somewhere, and the place to start is in the junk silver category, with silver going down day by day, now is the time for people offended by low grade coins to purchase junk silver for the express purpose of melting those coins out of existance, so they can come back as ms-69 and 70 silver eagles, maple leafs, libertads, philharmonics, kookaburras, or pandas etal. To facilitate this, coins that have been whizzed, dipped, or holed or other problems should have a large X scratched across the obverse and reverse, this will stop the problem of dealers wholesaling problem coins to unwary collectors, perhaps some of the grading companies could be enlisted in this effort, instead of sending a coin back bagged, they could scratch a large x in it to make sure that some other collector does not pay a premium for a problem coin. It may sound harsh to many collectors who have emotional attachment to their well worn, hardworking coins, but it would be for their own and future collectors, long term good. So anyway, I dont think many collectors will sign on to the effort, but it seems to me if there is a problem like the one stated in the OP, then this solution would address it.
Travis, I think some of that advice is directed at collectors who can't attend the major shows and bid on coins via the internet using photographs. This is basically buying the coin sight un-seen with no return policy. Her advice is to pay a dealer to help you avoid buying coins sight un-seen. In that respect, I love the CAC. A CAC stickered coin is essentially a coin that has been reviewed and deemed good for the grade, the same service you would pay a dealer to perform for you at an auction. The advice is also good for investors who don't have the requisite knowledge to properly grade the coins for themselves. BTW, I think that requisite knowledge is missing in the majority of coin collectors as well who would also benefit from her advice. The difference between a most collectors and investors is that the investors know they don't know how to properly grade coins. I am one of those collectors whose job responsibilities prohibit me from attending major coin shows. I like the CAC and would prefer that all of my potential purposes have a sticker. However, I will never pay a dealer to screen the coins for me. I know what Laura is saying, but I really like the gambling aspect of buying coins sight unseen using auction photographs. Sometimes I win, sometimes I lose, but it is always fun. I have never really cared about the money that I will lose at the time I sell. This is a peculiar hobby in that most of the participants don't ever want to lose any money. Most hobbies involve a significant cost for the entertainment that they provide. For example, my brother spends $10K/year on a country club membership to play golf. He enjoys chasing a little white ball around and is willing to pay handsomely for it. I enjoy collecting (not investing in) coins and am willing to pay a price for the enjoyment of the hobby. That price is the money that I lose when I sell my coins. Having said that, I always try to purchase what I consider quality eye appealing coins.
Okay Paul, but here is my take on this, you shouldn't be buying coins over the internet without a return policy, with or without CAC. I have no problem buying coins online, nobody should, but there needs to be a return policy. Yes it is fun to take little gambles sometimes, and you don't want to be "stuck" with a coin, ya' know? I see what she is saying about hiring somebody to look over your coins, and paying them, but that is just not for me. I will take me chances, and ask people (for free), instead of having somebody basically "working" for me, to tell me things I already know, or could have known with looking at more examples. I'll pass on that, but if others want to, that is fine, it just shows they are being extra cautious.
I do have someone I trust look at certain coins for me at major auctions, though by no means all of them. It only makes sense if a coin is of a certain grade/value. I think I have gotten better and better at grading the series I collect but do not think I am anywhere near on the level of where I need to be. I do think some collectors overestimate their grading ability (certainly not all, though). Also, I can't get to most shows and there is the advantage of having someone see the coin in hand. So it has worked for me but you better have someone you trust and appreciates the kind of coins you are looking for. Just my experience. I also recognize that I bought some "dreck" my first year or so back in this hobby and want to avoid it in the future.
Thank the Almighty that I'm just a humble collector. You guys are going to develop some weird and debilitating disease worrying over this crap....
LOL! That's pretty funny. I don't think the article was meant for us humble collectors. It's meant for the folks with deep pockets and a little bit of knowledge who get burned because some coins with a $5,000 price tag and slab pedigree are worth far less when resold to someone who can really tell the difference. The article comes across a little harsh, but sometimes you have to wack people over the head with a 2x4 to grab their attention.:hammer:
Yeah. Me too. Sometimes I just feel like buying a coin for the look of it or the history of it. Maybe just for the fun of it. The price is likely low to begin with. So sometimes I'm willing to pay a few extra dollars more than something is worth rather than leaving it behind. I do this occasionally. I'm glad low end, 150 year old coins are still relatively abundant and affordable. Some day maybe they won't be? I agree, maybe some coins should be X'd and sent to the melting pots. I've seen many that we could live without. But I would hate to see that get carried away. And the next thing is, who's going to be willing to do that? Who's going to deface a $20+ value holed dime, despite damage or condition and send it in to be melted at a loss? The answer: NOBODY! And it only gets worse as you go up. Nobody's going to send a rare, but damaged, cleaned, scratched, doctored, $1000 quarter eagle in and get paid back the melt value for it. It comes down to the fact that we're going to be stuck with buyer beware like anything else. As for strictly uninformed investors paying thousands for slabs (not the coins in them), I really don't care what they do. They will lose like everybody that stuck 100% of their wealth into the Madoff scam. If people have more money than sense, and no desire to learn, there's nothing anyone can do for them. If they don't lose it on bad coins, they'll lose it in some other scam. I'm sure there's a huge market that has accumulated all the rejects and problem slabs, strictly set up to scam people. They're making a fortune no doubt. It's probably most of the adds you see in magazine articles for slabbed, 'uncirculated', unseen coins.
' least you and I can wake up in the morning and look in the mirror and still like what we're seein' Vess...
I wonder how many of the nicest coins are in collections that may not come into the market for another 50 years....
The lesson applies to everyone. I concluded a long time ago that there were things I could buy where I knew enough to buy safely, and other things that are out of my level of expertise where I could not tread without professional help. You have to know the perimiter of your expertise and not venture too far beyond it without a great deal of study. My perimiter is pretty small, but I'm happy there.
We have to wait and wait and wait... I have only been back in this thing for about three years but I am still wishing for the day when Laura Sperber and other dealers (as well as David Hall in his weekly videos) are saying that the problem is there's just too much fresh material coming onto the market...
I shed no tears for either of those investors of coins or Maddof klingons. No one reached into their pockets and stole their money, they put it out there where it's all laid on the "crap" line. Face it , it's "gambling" plain and simple. They played the odds, and lost. Now I'm not condemning anyone for taking a shot, but it was their decision ultimately to go "all in". Greed is not on my personal list of the seven deadly sins. I have purchased tangible assets with the intention of making a profit, but I did so, knowing full well the possibility that the market winds may change unfavorably, but i'm not going to start screaming "thief" to the seller if they do. I have purchased some fairly rare/scarce High Dollar pieces from time-to time, some did good, others did not fair so well. I solicited opinions (pro and con) from those I consider to have a far better pulse on the market. Again, i'll say the final decision was all mine as are the gains or losses. Loosing a few times can be a great teacher if the individual is willing to recognize what their responsibility is. Never make large investments without consultation, and not just from those who think the way you do, but opposing opinions can be the most valuable ones.
