Yes I'm Complaining

No telling what Clinton would put on our coins..

 

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I think it is pretty clear that Condor was referring to coins with his comment...I'm sure he knows that Hamilton is on the $10.

 

Can't be so sure about that given the snarky reply that didn't contribute anything new to the discussion. Up to that point the discussion had only mentioned presidential portraits on US coins. I expanded it to bills, got that nonsense back and was just trying to explain how Hamilton happened into the discourse.

If the idea is to trend back to 'allegorical' figures on coins then it might well apply to notes. So I was looking for examples therein. Franklin both appeared on halves and still sits on the $100 note. Besides Hamilton, who or what other non-presidential or colonial figures has modern US National paper currency depicted? Only Presidents and in the case of the $2 note a copy of the painting depicting the original patriots, revolutionaries and politician signers of the Declaration of Independence. It would be nice to see LIBERTY and others on notes along with coins.:hail:

 

I would love to see things other than President's on our notes. I wish he would go back to the older days of currency printing as well. We had some amazing notes 100 years ago and I would love to see our notes return to a symbolic and artistic style rather than what we have today.

My comment about Condor was only to point out that he has been a long time member of this community and his knowledge is well known. Although his comment was a bit "snarky" he clearly said "coins" in his reply. So, I'm reasonably sure his response was about coins...not notes (especially since Franklin appeared on a coin as well as the $100 note where Hamilton was only on the note). I'm pretty sure he knows who is on the $10.

Other than Hamilton, the only non-president to be on a modern note (which to me is a small sized note) is Salon P. Chase. He was on the $10,000 note...I believe they stopped printing them in 1945.

 

Yeah, there was so much more diversity not long ago it seems in the artistry and depictions placed on notes. The new designs, while more cunning in their technology, greatly lack aesthetic charm and expressiveness. It certainly makes a statement about the Nation's attitudes, sophistication and where it's importance is placed in such designs, and I don't think it's a glowing statement unfortunately. However, it is amazing that the principles of engraving, intaglio print processes and traditional paper making remain employed in the printing and creation of modern notes despite counterfeiters and high tech add-ons.

 

I just wish that with all our hightech abilities and such, that we were willing to use it to create art on our notes. But, that just isn't an interest these days. The same goes for the coins, none of them look that good and it's sad.

 

Yup! :kewl: I concur.

 

The 4th cent for this year does appear to be a "construction site", but the original concept for this design is The Washington Years of Lincoln's life. During the period he was President, the US Capital building was under construction, so the dome appearing as "under construction" does acurately represent his years in Washington D.C.

Just trying to fill in a blank.

 

I like these cents a lot better...

 

Better than what we have now , but we can do a whole lot better , these look like flashes at a tatoo parlor .
rzage:whistle:

 

Are the Michael Jackson coins on eBay yet?

 

Yes, I do understand what it is and I think there is a somewhat symbolic message there, but like I originally stated I think it could have done a lot better. The artistry of our coins no longer exists in my opinion, and that was my main point.

I like American Silver Eagles, don't get me wrong I have two sets of them myself. I also want to say I like Miss Liberty on the Walking Liberty Half Dollar very much. But, we couldn't even come up with a design of Miss Liberty that was new and fresh for a new coin. We could only come up with a redo of a beautiful coin from our past. Whatever coins you think are the most beautiful whether they be Indian Head Cents, Mercury Dimes, Morgan Dollars, or whatever we have gone from these to coins with plastic stickers of our current president on them.

Someone mentioned the technology we have today. Maybe the technology is actually taking away some of the artistry from our coins. Maybe trying to be everything to everybody and politically correct all the times is hindering the creativity.

I am in no way an artist, but I know beautiful artistic coins when I see them.

 

Let me reply to my own reply on a thread I started in the first place. I suppose it is not hard to realize all this is an issue to me.

We had the Buffalo Nickel in our past. The mint does a silver version as a commemerative and "boom" big sellout with a handsome premium today. They do the Buffalo in gold, and "boom" extremely popular.

The mint starts the ASE, puts the Walking Liberty on the obverse. Highly successful coin in popularity.

They do a gold coin this year to commem Saint-Gaudens. I'm not into this coin myself, but I think it has been at least fairly popular.

My point is the mint and whatever boards review all this are quite aware of the beauty of the designs on these older coins. So why don't they get some artists together and come up with some new and fresh designs for our coinage?

A big part of the answer is once you put a dead president on a coin it is very difficult to get them off. I have no doubt if the Mint Director came out stating he wanted to change the dime or quarter taking off the two presidents he would be without a job. No politician in the House or Senate would want to touch a "Hot Potatoe" like that, there would probably be congressional hearings over it and their political career ruined.

Another big part, sadly to say, is probably nobody except people like us really care. Sad because what is being produced now that collectors a generation or two will have to cherish as part of thier collections.

 

The top one has a bit of a militant styling to it with that saber crossed with the quill, kind of subversive for American iconography (to me), also it's very Soviet-like with that huge star atop the American Shield.

The other two are interesting in their attempts at fierce and free flying eagles, probably referencing the early eagle designs used on coins and somewhat lost in modern eagles on the reverse of the dollars and larger denomination coins.

They do have that tat-parlor aesthetic in the outline phase, but in the final minted look and feel, this would probably be rather diminished. These seem very early on in design concept but pretty solid otherwise.

 

...also posted here: http://www.cointalk.com/forum/t58568-2/#post626338

 

I agree that it is very hard to remove a dead President from a coin...and that is probably why one has never been removed from a coin.

But, another concern I have is they just wouldn't do a good job with a new design. None of the artists that have made the designs in recent years have done a good job IMHO with the exception of maybe the Sac...which I thought the reverse was the best part of (which they got rid of).

With the demand for quantity of coins these days, I wonder if it would be possible to produce a nice quality coin. They have to make so many...at some point you sacrifice design quality for quantity. Combine that with the harder clad planchets we use today (compared to the old softer silver) and I think you have a recipe for an ugly coin. I would love to see an artistic and symbolic design on ours coins as much as anyone...but I just don't know if it could be effectively done.

 

I had never actually thought about the fact no President ever put on a coin has ever been removed from a coin from circulation, but a good point and it makes sense. I also like the reverse of that dollar (Sac) also.

But, look at the profit the mint has made off the State Quarters, '09 Lincoln Cent, and Westward Journey Nickels. I know these are "special" items, but I do believe the demand is there if they would be created. I don't think artistry would cost anymore money to produce.

I'm don't see how it would cost anymore money to make a Standing Liberty Quarter obverse than a Washington Quarter obverse. Not that I want a redo now of the SLQ, just using it as an example.

Some of the State Quarters are quite beautiful in my opinion, but some get too much on them for their size. But, I don't think these were any real big problem to produce.

 

I guess what I wonder is...look at the SLQ design. It is very intricate and detailed. But, the silver planchet it was made on is much softer than the modern clad planchet and thus easier to imprint the design on it. Also, look at how many they made...the most produced SLQ was the 1920 at just over 27 million. Today they make 1 billion+ a year. So, you have a harder planchet and a much higher production and the same quality is desired. I just don't know if it would be affordable with the quality control it would require. I would love it myself...but I just don't know if they could do it and not lose a bunch of money in the process.

 

Good design is often thought of as a balance between simplicity and complexity. A designer and their design can and must be ideal and realistic simultaneously, blending artistry and business into an effective piece of work.

If you want a good design it will not be cheap and it will not come about quickly. But if you want a good design done cheaply, it will cannot be produced quickly. Just as a quick, cheap design will be no good. It's a triangle in which you can only ever have two of the three options under one given request: good, cheap and fast.

It applies to all things just as it would when seeking new coin designs that are "very artistic and beautiful, but not (be) overly intricate to cause (the) production problems..." It is and art in and of itself, very difficult to communicate such factors to officials and people less concerned with design principles and philosophy and more focused on the public spotlight, terms in office and public legislative bills they are working to pass, such that design is overlooked or made to take a back seat to budgets and administrative constraints.

We do have great designs in place in our coins, a fairly good review system for new designs being proposed and good designers at work for the mint. We also will see better designs in the future and technology will improve to aid in better production so that finer examples of art and commerce will coexist.