Question regarding American Eagle Bullion coins

Jimmy....

My initial reply to this thread was simply to point out to you, whom I thought or at least received the impression from, that you liked and perhaps wanted to collect the bullion coins however, you were uncertain of it.

I simply wanted to point out that the collector interest and extant of low mintage's presented other opportunities within this series of gold, silver and platinum coins.

I was not directly answering your question.

It was only after your post remarks did I respond and reference additional information.
If you think I am being critical of you, well I am personally not happy about that, however, that is not the case.

If you ever get to see and hold almost the entire Series from 1986 to present in all it glory, then and only then will you feel as I did about the coins.
I can say with all honesty that at the time, I was one of the handful people in the collecting community to almost accomplish the entire set.

I am not a person who "talks down" to others, regardless if you think I was doing so or not. I do hope you enjoy the referemce I supplied for you and if by chance in the future your interest change to Paper Money, that I can be of some assistance.

Regards,

R.D. Bradley (RickieB)

 

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I understand what you mean about the ASEs and I hope I get a chance to acquire a few, although I'm not sure I want to buy with silver being so high. As far as currency goes, I've always wanted to assemble some kind of limited paper currency type set but never believed I could afford enough of the interesting notes (pre 20th century) to get very far into it (I do have an 1899 Black Eagle $1 silver cert that a relative gave me but thats about as far as my currency collection has gone lol)

I really don't care about everything else that was said, sometimes I enjoy a debate a bit too much. I should have let the first comment that I didn't like slide, then the last 5 posts or so wouldn't have been necessary, so I apologize.

 

As I have mentioned before where I live you can't pay your taxes with cash (legal tender), checks or credit cards only (both not legal tender)

Not always, there are times when legal money is NOT legal tender. Up until 1864 cents were legal money, but they were not legal tender. Half cents have always been legal money, but weren't legal tender until 1965. Other countries have had similar situations.

 

In order to fully understand what you mean here what are your definitions of legal money and then alternatively legal tender?

Legal tender is payment that, by law, cannot be refused in settlement of a debt.

As far as I understand it the phrase "legal money" has no real definition, and makes the most sense used interchangeably with legal tender. Am I incorrect on that?

 

Jimmy,

I think what Conder was trying to get across is that Cents have always been "legal money" (meaning they have some assigned value) but could be refused for transactions above a certain amount. Cents were legal tender for small transactions but not for large transactions.

If a customer wanted to pay for a purchase using all Cents the merchant could refuse if the amount exceeded the limit. I think the reason for this is that at the time the intrinsic value (melt value) of a Cent was less than one cent but the intrinsic value of silver and gold coins was very close to their face value. Therefore a merchant could not be forced to accept coins with intrinsic values of less than their face value above a small limit.

If you could go back in time to 1860 you would find that people did not automatically trust the US Government when it came to their money. When someone accepted a Half Dollar or a Quarter Eagle he expected the coin to be WORTH 50 cents or $2.50 respectively based on its silver or gold content. Basically the coins the Mint produced back then were hunks of precious metal that were formed into shapes and designs and that the Mint warranted had a precious metal content worth their stated value. (This was not the case for copper and nickel coins.) People back then wanted to know that if the US Government collapsed their coins still held their value in their metal content. (Imagine what they would think of our coins and unbacked paper money today!!)

 

Jimmyrules...

You are always welcome over at the Paper Money Fourm...
Please do stop by...we would love to have you!

No, guy's this is not a recruitment tactic...LOL


Regards,

RickieB

 

I have a buddy who's son took most of his silver dollars and spent them on candy at the local store. He did not get them back from the store owner. These where not ASE's though. Carson silver dollars or something(something I don't collect).

 

Legal money, coins made by the government for use as money. They meet the weight, size, alloy, and design as specified by law.

Legal tender on the other hand is a much slipperier thing. In the 19th century and at least the first half of the 20th century it was considered to be a legal obligation to be REQUIRED to accept the offered money in payment Since the 1950's Legal tender has come to mean a legally recognized means of paying a debt. This means that when legal tender has been offered it does NOT have to be accepted, but the law will recognize that a legal attempt has been made to make payment. The refusal does not cancel the obligation, you still owe the debt, but the person you owe may not add interest, penalties, or sue and the grounds of non-payment. (Legally this was probably also the case before the 1950's as well.)

So until 1864 cents were legal money. Made by the government and meeting all the legal definitions, weights, alloys, designs etc. But the were NOT legal tender they could be refused and you had no recourse. In 1864 cents were given limited legal tender status up to the amount of ten cents. If you tried to pay a fifty cent debt in cents they could be refused and the law would only recognize that you had tried to pay ten cents and they could charge late fees on the balance. Later the legal tender status of cents was raised to 25 cents and with the Coinage act of 1965 they were given unlimited legal tender status. As I mentioned half cents were legal money from the time they were first issued in 1793, but were NEVER legal tender until 1965. Likewise the other minor coins also had limited legal tender status as well. (two cent pieces to 20 cents, three cent pieces to 30 cents, nickels to 60 cents.) The silver coinage started out with unlimited legal tender status but after 1853 the silver coins less than a dollar had their legal tender status reduced to no more than $5 per transaction. Later in the 1870's that was raised to $10 where it remaned until 1965. So when offered in amounts about their statutory limits the coins would still be legal money, but would no longer be legal tender. Odd to think about isn't it?

The belief that you MUST accept legal tender probably comes from the 186's as well when the Union introduced the greenback or legal tender notes in 1862. This was paper money with no precious metal backing, just a promise of the government to pay. Naturally this paper would not be accepted if coins or gold or silver certifcates were available so the government did either try, or did require its acceptance during the war years. Oh you might have been able to fight it in court, but government could make things very uncomfortable for you if you tried.

 

Great info, thanks for sharing it.