Question regarding American Eagle Bullion coins

Question regarding American Eagle coins

I know prices for American Eagle coins are based on the going prices for silver/gold etc. But I've always wondered, since they are made by the US Mint and have a set value printed on them (1 dollar for the silver american eagle, etc.) are they technically legal money to spend for that amount?

Obviously no one in there right mind would take a double eagle $20 gold coin and use it for a $20 purchase somewhere, but legally could someone? To me it just seems a bit stupid to have a dollar value stamped on the coins if they aren't supposed to be redeemable for that value.

 

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Yes, they can be spent for face value. Apparently this happens every now and then.

Why do ASEs and AGEs have a "face value"? For a couple of reasons. The one ounce silver bullion ASE approximates a standard silver dollar in size and the one ounce gold AGE approximates a Double Eagle in size. By giving them a value of $1 and $20 respectively they are no longer thought of as simply bullion but coins and attract the attention of coin collectors who would not be interested in collecting bullion.

Also by having legal tender status these "coins" more easily clear customs in other countries.

 

I was just wondering the same thing the other day. Thanks Hobo for the answer.

 

Several years ago, when silver was just above $5, I called ScotiaBank in Canada and inquired about the legal tender status of the $5 maple leafs. If they were really legal tender in Canada, it would be like buying silver bullion with a put option attached. The bank informed me that the legal tender status was merely cosmetic to enable the coins to be shipped more easily to other countries and to avoid certain customs duties and taxes. They said it was up to each bank whether or not to accept the coin at face value. So the legal tender status of bullion might not be identical to that of circulation coins, even though it doesn't really matter now.

 

This is the kind of thing I was wondering about, but how can something e optional legal tender? Either the government defines it as legal tender or it doesn't. I guess the question would be whether or not you can pay your taxes with it :rolling:

 

Jimmyrules....

As a former collector of American Eagle "Bullion coins" let me be the first to tell you that not all of them sell at going bullion rate!

There are several of the 1/2 oz coins 1989,1990 and 1991 that are pretty scarce mintage wise. The 1991 had a mintage of 24,100 and when I sold mine a few months ago i received close to 1400.00 for it. The 1990 and 1989 sell for less , however, much more than spot!

The majority of these coins sell at spot or just above...so always look at the dates! The Roman Numeral varieties are worth more as well.

The 10th oz 1988 is another special coin as well as the entire 1991 1thru 1/10 oz fractional. Just because they are bullion, does not mean there is no collector interest and value associated with them.

Heck, I almost had the entire Issue at one time not so long ago!

The 1/4 and 1/10th oz 1999 Error "W" struck with proof dies is a very valuable coin.....try buying those at bullion prices!

Good luck and post images of the eagles...I love them still!!

Ohhh almost forgot...the 2006 Annaversary Issue Gold and Silver Sets are way over bullion! And the 1995 Proof ASE is 4-5K.....
So re-think that bullion statement and go for the keys first!
Here was one of my favorite links when I collected them. http://www.tulving.com/bullion_sales.html

RickieB

 

Search other past threads for this subject as

Search other past threads for this subject as I once made a fairly good argument for them really, (in my opinion) not even being considered as coins because of the questions you raise.

 

I understand the collectible aspect of them that you bring up but all that means is they are equivalent to commemoratives or other non-legal tender collectibles. The fact that people are willing to pay more for them than they are worth does not mean they should be considered real legal tender (or whatever the coin version of legal tender is?)

This is mainly because I'm a bit of a perfectionist...and I decided long ago that I will only spend money on collecting coins that are, or used to be, real government issued spendable money, not coins that are collectibles or commemoratives. So deciding on whether or not ASE's fall into this category is important to me despite the stupidity of it.

I'm also setting out to maintain a complete $1 coin set from Ike's to date and am trying to decide whether to include ASE's in that as well as other special $1 coins that the mint has issued.

 

Where did you ever get the idea that commemorative coins are not legal tender? Commemoratives coins are absolutely legal tender. As a matter of fact, many of the Columbian Halves, Stone Mountain Halves and other Early Commemorative Half Dollars were released into circulation when they did not sell out.

 

Jimmy...you are posting with an ultimate perfectionist!! I promise that to you...I think you need to hit the books again..(no disrespect intended)
But you are inncorrect with that statement.
The AGE and ASE are Legal Tender Coins as well as all the Commes old and modern. Therefore the $ denomination. If you want to collect gold that was used in circulation, well thas a different point. That all stopped when the Gold Standard was discontinued back in 1933.

You might want to go to the bookstore..


Regards,

RickieB

 

You bet. That's why we find so many circulated Commems.

 

recent years where commemoratives or bullion silver coins carried a face value. usually the face value is very much lower than what you bought it. why wait for that piece of silver coin go down to near or below its face value and you decided to use or sell them. you can sell them very much higher price if you decide to do it when price is way up. example: you got a 2009 modern commemorative silver dollar at $33.00. face value is $1.00. why wait for price go down to $1.00 and decide to use or sell them in the future?. another example: 2009 silver bullion one ounce dollar. face value is $1.00. the current price is $18.00 to $20.00. again why wait until face value and let you think you gonna dispose it. well. in reality. people tend to sell when the price is low and buy when it is high. just like the stock market.

 

Easy there RickieB, I was never claiming to know anything about this subject, which is why I opened this thread to learn. Informing me on the subject is very helpful and appreciated, telling me I need to go somewhere else and learn more facts before asking is not appreciated and saying "no disrespect intended" doesn't make it ok to make disrespectful comments.

You misread my statement; your post before basically explained that many ASEs and similar coins have collectible value beyond their bullion value and my response (when I said "all that means is they are equivalent to commemoratives") was basically saying that all you are telling me is ASEs have collectors value just like all coins, whether legal tender or not, which does not exactly answer my original question.

I never meant to make it sound like I knew that commemorative halfs are not legal tender, but cloudsweepers post and some others in this thread indicated that coins of this type have values printed on them for technical purposes and the question of whether or not they are legal tender is a gray area. Which is exactly why I opened this thread, to have those questions answered. You must admit it is a bit confusing with how many products the mint makes that are not intended for circulation.

The fact that commemoratives are spendable, and have been found in circulation, is something I did not know. Thanks for that information Hobo.

 

You have to go back a bit in history to understand. When coins were literally worth their weight in gold and silver, and bills were redeemable in those coins, there were no legal tender laws. The legal tender laws came about because of fiat currency. I recall reading the objection that many people had to the original legal tender laws: "If the money is good, why do we need legal tender laws? And if the money isn't any good, why should we be forced to accept it?" I think you are correct that the ability to pay taxes is probably the ultimate legal tender test. Everything else is put in place for other reasons.

 

Jimmyrules...

I did not misread your statement. Indeed I can not read your mind, however, what you stated is incorrect! All Legal money is legal tender regardless of when it was minted or issued. Regardless of what you may pay for it it is Legal Tender for the denomination/value on the security instrument.

When I suggest that you should go to the bookstore that does not mean that I am insulting you. Simply put, for you to get a better understanding of what you are saying, perhaps a visit to the venues would afford you better recourse.

The 1875 S 20 cent piece I once had in my collection (PCGS MS-63 monster toned) was worth exactly 20 cents because it was a legal tender coin in that amount. Despite the fact that a well known collector purchased it from me for 1800.00 is beside the point!
To this day, there are pieces of fractional currency that are still monetized within our system and can be traded for commerce for 3 cent, 5 cents, 10 cents, 15 cents 25 cents and 50 cents. Theses are often offered in high grade version for collectors just as coins are for hundreds if not thousands of dollars! They are still only worth face value in commerce!
Here is an image of a 50 cent fractional from 1875....still worth 50 cents legal tender for all debits except customs!

I am not trying to insult you, just point out that you have a misunderstanding of some facts, (or so it appears) I actually enjoy helping people.........


Regards,

RickieB

 

I can vouch for that. Rick is one of the really, really good guys here at CoinTalk. He is VERY knowledgeable in his area (Paper Currency) as well as coins and is always eager to share his knowledge. You should listen to him, Jimmy, because you can learn a LOT from him and other knowledgeable members here.

 

Hello Jimmyrules...

I did a little searching and came up with a pretty good source for you.
I am sure it is not the earliest example, however, it will be a starting place for you to get the information that you have some question about.

If you decide to research it, I for one would interested in what you could report about it here on the fourm. Yes I know this may sound like a homework assignment, but let me assure you it is not.

Just a starting place that may lead you to become a "contributor" to the Numismatic Community here!

Good luck and I hope to hear from you??


G.P. Putnam and Sons Publishing, New York, New York

Title of the Book
Money and Legal Tender in the United States

Author; H.R. Linderman
Director of U.S. Mint 1877


Regards,

RickieB

 

Well, first of all, saying "all legal money is legal tender" is circular reasoning. I know that legal money is legal tender, what I did not know is whether or not ASEs and commemoratives qualified as legal money (or legal tender).

Since you obviously still don't understand what I meant (and for some reason this is so important) let me re-word it. I originally said the following:

"I understand the collectible aspect of them that you bring up but all that means is they are equivalent to commemoratives or other non-legal tender collectibles."

Here is the same thing reworded:

"All that your statement means is that they have value as collectibles in addition to their bullion value, just like commemoratives or non-legal tender coins, which I already knew. What I do not know is whether or not they have legal tender status, which your statement did not address."

Now please tell me what is incorrect here?

Moving on...I know perfectly well that a 20 cent coin and fractional currency were legal-tender but have values much higher than their stated denominations (what coin collector wouldn't know something like that?), but those are terrible examples here because unlike ASEs and commemoratives, those items were released into circulation. The whole point of this thread was to identify the status of coins that were not released for circulation.

 

Please explain to me what part of me saying that the AGE, ASE and APE is LEGAL TENDER that you did not understand?

American Eagle Silver Bullion Coins

View Brochure



Direct from the Mints Website:

"American Eagle Silver Bullion Coins are affordable investments, beautiful collectibles, thoughtful gifts and memorable incentives or rewards. Above all, as legal tender, they're the only silver bullion coins whose weight and purity are guaranteed by the United States Government. They're also the only silver coins allowed in an IRA. "

"Authorized by the Bullion Coin Act of 1985, American Eagle Gold Bullion Coins quickly became one of the world's leading gold bullion investment coins. Produced from gold mined in the United States, American Eagles are imprinted with their gold content and legal tender "face" value. "

Regards,

RickieB

 

I know perfectly well now that they are legal tender, it is not necessary to pull quotes off of the mint website or start typing in all caps.

My statement, which you have been saying was incorrect, was in response to your very first post in this thread, where you did not address the legal tender issue. I quote it below:

There's no point in debating this, it doesn't benefit anyone, but please in the future try to not be so quick to assume ignorance of people you know nothing about. I knew from the moment I made this thread that I did not know if ASEs were legal-tender. I never stated that they weren't legal tender, I only said that I did not know.

Now responding by first accusing me of making incorrect statements, then telling me I need hit the books, then again that I need to go to a bookstore, and then explaining that a 19th century 20 cent coin is worth more then 20 cents today like I'm an idiot (then re-emplhasizing that with fractional currency, which believe it or not I have heard of before), then recommending a book to me so that I can read it and then "have something to contribute", all come across as a bit insulting. I'll throw it all into the wind and assume you didn't mean any disrespect when saying any of that but you really should choose your words more carefully.

I've been a member of this forum for almost 2 years, a coin collector (as a hobby) for almost 10 years, and while I'm sure you are much more knowledgeable in these areas and have contributed much more to this forum I will not be talked down to.

On a lighter note, thank you for the book suggestion, it sounds interesting and I might check it out.