The ~ 600:1 Ratio here at CT

Pretty interesting that you mention this RickieB, as I was talking to an employee of Rare Coin Wholesalers about this topic (sort of) at Long Beach with Snaz.

So we were talking about some super nice coins and such, and then paper money was mentioned, and he asked us if we collect it. I told him "yeah, a little, but not as much as coins"

Anyway, aside from what people said about affordability and knowledge, there's just something about a shiny, or even worn down coin that's just nice.
Paper however, when used, becomes torn, ripped, folded, etc. Coins do not.

So, we came to the conclusion that - aside from the fantastic art on notes - coins are just nicer to look at for the average collector. Coins have luster, they can tone, they can have a woodgrain effect, they can be strongly struck, and so on.
Paper money does not have these properties and that, paired with affordability, is why I think there are so many people into coins. In order to fully appreciate some of the art on notes you really need a nice example and those don't come cheap.

 

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I had never realized the numbers were so slanted, just about every coin accumulator I know will save the more common collectible notes that come along, ($2 notes , fancy, or consecutive serials etc. or the odd overseas note. But I have noticed the multiple over face value is headed straight up for true classics like the buffalos and indian chiefs.

Put me down as one of the few that collect both.

One way to collect paper cheap is to look for obsolete notes or overseas notes that are available CHEAP. WW2 issues are especially cheap, and many have strong US connections historically. south american notes of the late 1800's to early 1900's are often printed by american bank note or other US printers.

Thanks for giving a different perspective on our hobby.

.

 

I would like to personally thank everyone who added to this thread.
I find your comments and thoughts right on line with the pulse of the hobby.

Magman...you mentioned wood-inclusions (wood grain), well my friend, everyonce in a while you will see in Paper Money what is called a wood inclusion as well...interesting they are as well. Ironic that this subject is broached more often than we think huh?

I also agree that coins do hold a special place in our collecting history. Wether it is the physcial properties, visual appeal or intrinsic value, the one thing that remains constant about both Paper Money and Coins is that when you hold it in your hands, you are indeed Sir, holding History!

Thank you friends....I so look forward to the future!

Regards,

RickieB

 

Re-reading some of this and your other threads Rickie, I just had the thought of HOW FUN it would be to come over to your house and have you show off your collection and teach me a lot more than I know now about paper money and collecting it.

 

Ohhhh Nooooo!!! LOL
I am flattered......blush blush

After what I just went through with a huge Security Issue due to mails just like this post, but they came from folks I did not know of...LOL :whistle:

I tell you what, how about we plan on a Coin Talk Paper Money Collectors meeting at a show sometime. Perhaps I may be ready to display the collection one of these days....for now can I ask that you please follow the link at the bottom of my posts to review the notes...My new address is 12345USA Ave West, Anytown, USA. 12345

I will always be happy to share what ever information I may be able to help you with, just like all the other fine people we have here. All you have to do is ask. I only wish I knew half of what our friends all know!
Kind regards,


RickieB

 

Oh, I know it's not possible, but it would be fun. I really appreciate all that I have learned since joining this little community a month and a half ago (or so). And yes, to have some paper conference at a coin show would be fun. Of course, the next coin show I go to will be my first so I don't know what to expect.....

 

For the record...there are many of you here who I would love sit down with and look over each others collections. Nothing personal bobbeth..just had a bad experience a few weeks back.

Regards,

RickieB

 

What an odd twist the thread took but I understand RickieB totally.

Shows are a good place to share a FEW things but even then you don't know who's watching. I met a few friends at a show some while back and brought a few things to show them.
Security was watching that's for sure. I was interrupted twice to be told I could not sell there. I assured them I wasn't but you get the gist.

One can never be too careful.

 

Oh, I was just making comment. No need to explain. Seriously, I was just thinking how fun that would be to have a friend with a collection like yours. No offense, but I would never invite anyone I met online to my house. I just wouldn't do it. In my previous comment, Rickie, I was simply complementing you. Period. I would think you were off your rocker if you invited me to your house since we don't know each other besides here. Sorry, I didn't mean to creep you out (if I did), just thinking out loud. My best friend thinks I'm nuts to collect coins. I get other friends who tell me they have a collection and they show me 5 2000 sacagawea's, 3 wheatbacks, 1 silver quarter, and several misc trickets. Ummm, that's not much of a collection...Anyway, I hope you understand where I was coming from now....

Sorry if I was misunderstood

bob

 

Interesting thread. I am primarily a coin collector who has recently become interested in paper to some degree.

I see what you are saying Tmoney. It is nice to collect items you know have some intrinsic value. Many "metal" people would just go straight to bullion, instead of purchasing delving into the history of classic coins.

The alternative is that you can have the best of both worlds! Instead of buying AGEs, or ASEs; one can purchase a Saint Gaudens gold coin, or a $5 indian. They are incredibly beautiful designs, classic and historical; plus you have the benefit of owning the gold content which makes up a large amount of the price! As a result, gold has been the main focus of my coin collection.

Anyways, I've also discovered that collecting paper can have this same advantage. I've recently been enthralled with high denominations(as some of you know from my previous thread). I only have one in my collection at this point($500 bill). They have the advantage of portraying a president that you don't see everyday on bills(Cleveland/McKinley), being historical in a way that leaves you wondering which high roller, gangster, or maphia member might have carried it in hand. Also, the more common lower grade bills have a pretty high (face value/total value) ratio, so you know that when purchasing one, your hard earned money will be going toward......well, a sizable hunk of HARD EARNED MONEY!:mouth:

Though I am primarily a coin collector, saving up for a mid-grade 1k bill is just as high on my priority list as any of my high priority coins, because they simply do the same thing for me as a collector as a classic $20 gold piece. However, I will stop there as I would never be able to afford a 5k or 10k bill. Those are just insane.:bigeyes::bigeyes::bigeyes:

 

I really like the high denominations as well...at the moment however I'd have a hard time coming up with a $500, let alone the higher ones. I love browsing the bills on this site:
http://www.thecurrencyhouse.com

Fortunately if I really wanted bills with those presidents, they can be had at a much better price if I go large size. Cleveland is on the 1914 $20 FRN's and McKinley on the 1902 $10 NBN's. Madison however only calls the $5000's home...large and small.

 

I think you'll find that the ratio of active currency/coin collectors here at CT is much higher than 600:1 if you carefully analyze the numbers.

True, there are nearly 19,000 registered members, but most of them are inactive. As of the time of making this post, there are only 2,771 members with 10 or more posts. More than 5,700 have no more than 2 posts. (Click on "Posts" at the top of the Members List page to sort the members by total post count.)

Taking into account both the active newer members on their way to the 10 post level, and the formerly active ones, no longer posting on a regular basis, a very generous estimate of current active members is certainly no more than 3,000, and probably much less.

On that basis your 30 active currency collectors represent at least a full 1% of the group, a ratio of 99:1, not 600:1.

Realistically, your 30 actively posting paper collectors are part of the even smaller cadre of members active on a daily, or even weekly basis, putting the real ratio into a range of 10:1, or more.

 

Hontonai....
As I replied to HoBo....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hobo
The 600:1 ratio (coin collectors to currency collectors on CoinTalk) is not correct. You are assuming that EVERY CoinTalk member who is not one of the 30 active currency collectors is a coin collector. I'm sure there are many CT members who are not among the '30' but who collect coins & currency or currency only (but to a less conspicuous degree than the '30').

Also, I would be willing to bet that a HUGE portion of the 18,000 CT members are not active members and should not be included in your count of CT coin collectors. A large number of CT members have only one or two posts asking the value of a coin, why their Lincoln Cent has Kennedy's image stamped into it, etc. and have never returned. Those thousands of inactive "members" should not be counted.

My guess is that of active CT members the ratio of coin collectors to currency collectors is closer to 15 or 20 to 1, not 600 to 1.



By RickieB:

I pretty much knew that this remark may very well come up so let me explain the 600:1 to you a little better. At one time or another over 18,800people who signed up to this site displayed an interest in coins and paper money, to me that means they were active at that timepoint. Wether they remain active or not, is not the question, that is the total member count on this site thus far. I am not trying to dispute any real number count, but if you look at statistics the number is well supported.
Now wether or not we choose to collect certain items is purely a personal choice. If you were to break it down into demographic groups of questions ...well there would be many diverse catagories to scan through!

What I am trying to point out is that Paper Money Collecting is realitively new, compared to coin collecting which is deeply rooted into the history of this and most every other Country! So why do we have small numbers of Paper Money Collectors is the real question here?

If you were to have asked me 5 years ago if I would have ever considered collecting Paper Money, I would have replied, no way! Nothing beats gold, silver or platinum in my book!

But what I see in Paper Money is not a real/hard asset like the metals, but more of an ART form that has embraced every Nation in this World for as long as time has been recorded. It's simple once you see it, engraving is an ART accomplished only by true Masters of the Art. How many of you have stated that "WOW, if only the Paper Money today were more like what it once was"! I have said it and wish with every ounce of my soul that the BEP would release Special engravings of currency like they do commem coins!

Everyonce in a while you will see a special coin and currency set, but that is only every once in a while! Coins are a market and the U.S. Mint knows this very well. Heck, they used to get thousands of dollars from me every year!

SO please do not misunderstand my thread, I am trying to make a valid point that the ratio of coin to paper money collectors is a lopsided giant!

I so look forward to the day that Paper Grows into the beast that coins have grown into.

Best regards everyone,

RickieB

 

The count is interesting, the absolute numbers are not as important as the overall idea that the numbers of currency collectors is comparatively low, but that they are increasing , and that the average age of entry is the mid 30's. These are importand ideas for anyone who wishes to know which way the wind is blowing.
Good numbers on collectors are difficult to get, good numbers on something as specialized as currency collectors doubly difficult.

Thank you for digging this up



a few more comments;
Originally paper money to me was a document from history. Perhaps that is why I like revolutionary mexican issues.

I gained a technical appreciation of paper by studying old lithos and engravings, real interest in paper money as art came later.

Kind of an interesting aside, when presidents were meantioned, generals and others come up as well.

We happened in to a neat engraving, about 24x30 inches, 1860, signed, of Winfield Scott, one of many used on currency. Now we are looking for notes to go with it!

 

Here is the pinnicale of my collection at the moment. The $2 Hancock Note in PMG64 EPQ...the engraving is simply spetacular! One of the Great Civil War Generals! (Winfield C. Hancock)

Regards,

RickieB

 

That is a wonderful note. It would be worth more than all my notes.

I believe that hancock was named for fuss and feathers, as was another civil war officer. I haven't taken the time to research all of the notes issued with the Winfield's portraits. That would be a collection in and of itself.

It will be fun to get into this class of material more. We are still working on types of fractionals and confederates. My wife and I select them together, it makes for good days at shops and shows.

 

I spent more time looking at the design, WOW. It is amazing how much better they became in a few short years. Collonials and territorials are pretty crude, some of the early stamps and fractionals were a little better. Confederates are limited by materials in many cases. But by the time this was printed, they had perfected the art.

Sometimes I fear that our modern currency will decline as other nations have. Like the new dollar coins. The potential is in the details.

 

I like you, felt the exact same way!
I too have a fear as you can see the quality differences in todays work.


Thank you for posting...


RickieB

 

Wow, Rickie, that is a beautiful note!!!!

Thanks for sharing