Does ANybody understand Backplate check #'s?

Discussion in 'Paper Money' started by TheNoost, May 16, 2009.

  1. TheNoost

    TheNoost huldufolk

    $1400 in consecutive $2 bills. Series 2003 A. FPP ia H3 on all
    Serial #s start with G-04714001-A and go to G-04717001-A
    Broken down into $200 packs (100 notes aech) to make it easier.
    4001-4100
    --4001 BP check # is 22 and goes up (23,24,21,22,23,24,etc. Seems all backplate #'s in this series are 21,22,23 and 24) as serial # goes up.
    --4100 BP check # is 21


    --here is the issue--
    4012 has BP # 21 and 4012 has BP #23
    4039 has 21 BP# 4040 has 23BP#
    4078 has 21 4079 has 23
    4083 has 23 and 4084 has 21
    all the rest go 21,22,23,24,21,22,23,24

    ?--?What happened to the missing numbers???
    I can't figure out the formula for the placement
    ---------------------------------------------
    Here is the next pack
    starts at 4101 and goes to 4200
    4101 BP#22 and goes up. Ends at 4200 BP#23
    *except for
    4144-BP 21 to 4145-BP 24
    ---------------------------------------------
    Another
    Start at 4201 BP 24-4300BP 24
    *except for 4268 BP23 then 4269 BP21
    ---------------------------------------------
    Last one before it gets weird
    Start 4301 BP 21 to 4400 BP23
    *except for 4389 BP21 to 4390BP BP23
    ---------------------------------------------
    Start 4401 BP22 to 4500 BP24
    *except for 4418 BP23 to 4419 BP 21 (switched directions?)
    4443 BP 21 to 4444 BP 23 (Switched back?)
    4455 BP22 to 4456 BP24
    Weird right
    ---------------------------------------------
    Weirder
    4501 BP21 to 4600 BP 23
    * except for 4504 BP24 then 4505 BP23 then 4506 BP24
    (caught the switch!)
    and
    4560 BP 22 to 4561 BP 24
    ---------------------------------------------
    ---------------------------------------------
    Here is where it gets really really weird!
    4601 BP 24 to 4700 BP 24
    4604 BP 23 to 4605 BP 23 then 4606 BP 24 (same BP# 2X in a row)
    4616 BP 22 to 4617 BP 24
    4625 BP 24 to 4626 BP 21 to 4627 BP 21 to 4628 BP 22(2X again)
    now i will take off the leading 4 so they all fit (I hope)

    638-p24,639-p21,640-p21,641-p22,642-p23,643-p21,644-p22,645-p24
    (what?!?)

    then back to semi normal
    679-p22 to 680-p24

    Please help me to understand this. It doesn't seem to make sense. If it was totally randomn, I could understand. If it was always in order, I could understand. But this.....I don't understand.
     
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  3. TheNoost

    TheNoost huldufolk

    Also, Numbers, if you are looking at this, I have a question about Series 2004A $20 star on your site. Is the GB * mar 07 - GB 003 20000 * a typo? Should it be GB 03 200000 * instead?
     
  4. RickieB

    RickieB Expert Plunger Sniper

    Noost...

    I think you asked the right person...will be interesting to see what he has to say!


    RickieB
     
  5. NOS

    NOS Former Coin Hoarder

    Numbers is being laid-off from his job at a school sometime soon and doesn't have a computer at home so it might be a while before you get a reply...
     
  6. Daggarjon

    Daggarjon Supporter**

    Dang :( he is a great assst and always provides tons of information.

    This economy needs to start getting beter instead of 'not getting as bad, as fast'

    i wish him luck!
     
  7. Numbers

    Numbers Senior Member

    Yeah, I'm probably going to be on the 'Net very intermittently for a while. Fortunately, today I happen to have an hour or two in front of a computer.... :cool:

    About the plate numbers: As you've noticed, the BEP's current generation of presses use four plates in rotation, so you get a cycle of four plate numbers repeating over and over again. Your particular straps seem to have used four *consecutive* plates, 21-22-23-24, but that doesn't always happen; sometimes they just grab four random plates out of the vault. (I remember seeing back plates 25-27-29-31 and 30-32-33-34 in a few of the straps of 2003A $2's I've gotten, for example.)

    Jumps in the plate number sequence happen because the printed sheets are inspected after each stage of the printing process. The backs are printed first, and then an inspector might pull an occasional sheet out of the stack if it's a bit smeared or something. Next the intaglio portion of the faces are printed, and there's another inspection where some sheets can be pulled. Note that all of this happens before there are any serial numbers on the notes--indeed, before these sheets are even assigned to any particular print run of serial numbers--so there are no star notes or anything like that involved. The bad sheets are simply pulled and destroyed, leading to jumps in the sequence of plate numbers.

    Incidentally, the new super presses that the BEP's supposed to be installing and testing now will use *three* plates instead of four. So be on the lookout for new straps that use a cycle of three plate numbers; that'll probably be the first sign that the new presses are in use. There might even be straps that cycle through three back plates but four face plates, or vice versa, if the BEP allows a batch of sheets to be back-printed on one press type but face-printed on the other.... (If you go back several decades, you can find consecutive runs of notes that alternate between two plates, or that all come from the same plate, depending on what sort of press was in use at the time.)

    What I've always wanted to find is a short run of consecutive notes that shows *more* than four different back (or face) plate numbers. This would happen very rarely, when a couple of different batches of printed sheets were stacked on top of each other to be run through the serialling operation. But in theory such notes ought to exist, occasionally....

    Nope. The March run ended at 00320000, and the April run started at 03200001, with a gap of 2,880,000 unusued serials in between. Every star run always begins at a multiple of 3,200,000 (the size of a full run) plus one, even if the previous run was a partial run. And since 320,000 notes (=10,000 sheets) is a fairly common partial run size, this gap between 00320000 and 03200001 seems to come up once or twice per series, in some denomination and some district. And every time it happens I get exactly this question.... :rolleyes: See my thread from a few weeks ago on serial numbering and plate positions if you want way too many details about this stuff.

    Thanks. I may need it, judging by the rather complete lack of jobs to apply for that I've been finding.... :mad:
     
  8. TheNoost

    TheNoost huldufolk

    Thanks for the explanation! You're the man. (Not the one always tryin' to keep people down, the good one. :) ) Good luck on your carrer search. Hope you find something you enjoy and pays well.
     
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