Short story about a purchase and question-Toned Morgan

I'm really not happy with myself right now. Here's a short story that began April 10th, involving a purchase from a dealer on ebay.

So I find this great looking MS-63 star, 1887-P bag toned Morgan on ebay that I really want. The pictures make it look fantastic. No bids. So I decide to watch it to the end and see if it sells. It ends Saturday and doesn't sell.
So, I make the dealer an offer. I offer to buy it off ebay and spare him any fees. He says I'm too low. He paid more than that. (Probably a lie.)

Alright, so I wait. Then I ask what's the lowest he's willing to go (since it did not sell). No response. Write the next day. No response. Write the next day. No response. Then I apologize if I offended him and tell him that I would really like to buy the coin. What's he willing to do?

FINALLY, after about 5 days, I get a response. No apology or excuse for the delay. Just gives me a new price.....that is HIGHER than what the auction originally was!!!!!! $5.00 higher. Despite the fact that I'm saving him fees and then says if I don't buy it that he's going to re-list it for get this..... $65 MORE than what it was listed at the first time!!!!! The market is not that hot for them on ebay.

So I thought about it a while. I really wanted the coin but I was so aggravated with him that I was just as close to blowing up at him and telling him off. It almost happened.

In the end, my desire to have the coin won out. I just accepted it, took the price, sent paypal, and told him don't look for me to be a returning customer and signed it. That was last Thursday.

Received coin today. The toning is nice. A little darker than the picture. I don't know that I like it as much as I originally thought I would, but I would keep it with no complaints.
But the problem............ THE WHOLE FRIGGIN TOP EDGE OF THE RIGHT SIDE AND BOTTOM OF THE SLAB HAS BEEN CHISELED OFF!! It only makes it down to the seal at the bottom corner. The rest looks like it stays above the seal. But still.

Gee, would have been nice to get a warning about that! How do I know for sure this hasn't been tampered with now? Funny that he wouldn't mention it. Is there any conceivable reason why someone would do that to a slab? It is a genuine NGC slab. Best case scenario, I probably will have to submit it for a new slab now.

What should I do now? Send back and ask for a refund? Send to NGC to get a new slab? This came from a major seller on ebay. I'm really not impressed. Not at all. The seller will remain nameless. For now. Maybe he's here and would like to join in???

Moral of the story: You know when you're dealing with a good seller and you know when you're dealing with a bad one. Usually you can tell right away. I should have just walked away when I didn't get a response the first time. Rarely do I have the patience to wait that long. This has been another valuable lesson. I should return it just for the principle of it.

 

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Sorry to hear of your disappointing experience.

Live and learn, I suppose.

 

I would try to return it. Hopefully paypal will back you - hope you used a credit card also as a back-up for stop payment. Sounds like you might have a tough time returning especially since you did it outside of ebay. Did he offer a return policy - outside the listing?

I would never do this with someone who only sold on ebay - not a reputable dealer with a separate site. And I would certainly never go more than what the coin listed at - should have told them to just re-list it. And yes I have seen re-listings go in price up and then sell, which is almost funny. I think I would rather pay a dealer more than get it cheaper on ebay. Even though recently I find dealers to be cheaper than the auctions on ebay. Oh well - just my opinion.

 

Since you bought if outside of E-bay you do not have the return guarantees that you would have on E-bay. Like wise you will find paypal will not be as supportive as they would have been. You may not have the option to return the item> be caqreful if you decide to return as you may lose both the coin and your cash. It may be better to take this as a lesson learned and submit to NGC for a reslab and call it a ay.


Just my opinions
Richard

 

I have to learn to type quicker!! :} :}

 

I once dropped a slab I forgot I had in a jacket side pocket and it hit the hard floor at just the right angle to break off the top edge to the seal. It sure looked like I exchanged a coin. Only thing to do is to sell as a raw or reslab. The coin wasn't damaged, just me.

Jim

 

First thing you should remember is that you were the aggressive one. There are number of reasons the eBay seller may not have responded to you in the beginning. Foremost, I would believe that the seller was reluctant to become involved in any way with a transaction outside of eBay, non-solicited, outside of any current auction for the coin in question, with the stated intent of evading fees that would otherwise be paid to eBay for the transaction. The seller well may have thought that you may have been a setup.

That said, I would personally take the seller's inaction to the first few original email requests as simply the seller being careful not to violate any rules of the venue where his business is established. Having a "professional website" or B&M establishment in no way validates the business over an eBay only establishment. But, if this seller is caught violating any of his venue's rules, then he will be stuck with the need to find a new venue to keep putting food on the table and paying mortgage.

That's simply a scenario for you to contemplate.

From the one side you have given, it sure does sound as though the seller was reluctant to complete this transaction and was trying hard to discourage you. Since you have chosen to keep this seller as anonymous as possible, we do not know what the original auction revealed about the slab. Were there pictures of the complete slab in the auction? Was there any evidence at all that the slab was damaged in the photos from the auction? Does the serial number on the slab received match that of the auction? Is it known by fact that there were no problems with the slab prior to shipment to you?

All of this is very important. If the slab was in fact completely in tact and without blemish, then there is the possibility that the damage occurred in transit. This is something that you need to open a dialog with the seller to find out. If the slab was not blemished prior to shipment, you will need to get a statement from the seller, then contact a regional Postal Inspector to investigate alleged tampering of your shipment.

Do not think that this kind of stuff does not happen, because it does. If the seller states that the slab was already damaged, then I would say, based on the manner you obtained the slab, that it was your mistake not to make sure that all questions regarding the slab were answered prior to closing the deal.

Personally, I would simply finish the job and crack the whole thing out and rehouse it in a snap lock so I can take it out of the plastic whenever I wanted to. But, that's personal preference.

If you intend to keep it in an NGC slab with the intent of future sale, I would most definitely send it in for reholdering. If it happens to come back as a counterfeit slab, then I would say you have a definite problem with the seller. But, in any other case, you were the one who pushed the issue upon an apparent reluctant seller, and you should count it as experience, learn to slow down, calm down, and when you see that coin you ABSOLUTELY have to have, take more than just a few breathes. It probably won't do any good to do so, but at least you have the opportunity to think it through a bit less impulsively.

 

At the very first hint that a transaction isn't going well, whether through Ebay, internet, or in person, trust your gut feeling and run the other way. When he refused to discount the coin and relisted it at a higher price, he was betting that you would act exactly as you did.

 

Sorry to hear about that I deal on eBay quite a bit and have had a few problems myself. But it's the only way I can get coins so I just have to live with it :desk:

 

I'm sorry to hear about what happened. I think you need to decide first if you really do want the coin. If not, try and return it...just make sure you don't get burned in the process.

If you like the coin, then keep it. Send it and get it reholdered if you want. If you like the coin enough for the $130 + reholdering fee...then keep it.

Lets see a picture.

 

Thanks for all the replies. I appreciate everyone's input. I realize I take a large part of the blame and should have ran the other way.

To add to this, the seller does have 100% positive feedback and many thousands of them. He did not disclose in the auction or to me that the slab was damaged. There was full pictures of the slab but you couldn't tell there was anything wrong with it until after I received it and compared.

It definitely wasn't tampered with by the post office. It came in one of those sticky cardboard holders in a bubble mailer. Impossible for this kind of damage to happen in transit. The coin is definitely one of a kind. No question it is what was in the auction. But I believe the pictures were photoshopped to make it much lighter on the obverse and even more lighter on the reverse, compared to what it actually is.

If I can't return it, it's not a big deal on this one. I kind of don't want to anyway. I will probably send it in for a new holder. It was just an odd situation that could have been worse I guess.

As far as edge damage, someone has chipped it on the bottom from where the left corner ends, across the whole bottom, around the right bottom corner and all the way up the right side to where the top right corner ends. No other damage. I don't think this could happen by dropping it.

The serial number does register on NGC as what it says it is. An 1887 MS-63 star. No picture.

Sent the seller an e-mail. Waiting for a response.

 

Sorry to hear about it... some pictures on ebay don't tell the whole story i ask ?s all the time about the items i bid on. but its hard at the last Hour to get them to tell you anything. out of most of my deals on ebay noting Wrong yet. over 200 items won

Kinds of same topic i seen Some Big Coin sellers on ebay that get there friends to bid you up on items AKA Jump bidding..

 

It was more than 130. That's what he wanted to tack on to the price when he re-listed. Maybe I'll post a link and give him some free advertising. I won't deal with him again but he does have 100% positive feedback and some cool stuff. Probably could buy from him again and everything would be perfectly fine. It's just an unfortunate scenario. But I've dealt with a lot better.

I'll post a pic. Let me get it on photobucket.

 

The reverse is plain with a light golden tone but still has cartwheel luster. I'm actually liking the reverse better than the pic he had.

 

Wow that's a beautiful Morgan Vess!

I was just checkin out eBay and found one just like it, only the toning is to the left, they look like brothers 1887 NGC MS63* STAR FLASHING GLOWING RAINBOW CRESCENT - eBay (item 300306653011 end time May-08-09 16:20:40 PDT)

 

It's an awesome Morgan Vess! Even though I think you overpaid, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, if I fall in love with a coin I never pay 2x Numismeia price for it, and I think you paid close to 3x. Set a price in your head and STICK to it. Toned coins are worth more to certain people, and it is beautifully toned. I'd throw it into an airtite and put it in a prominent place to remind me, trust me, I've been there! I'll post my story when I can get a good picture of my "guaranteed" NT Indian cent.

 

Thanks guys. I really think a lot of these toned Morgans are over priced. Some WAY over priced. And I've watched some get re-listed over and over. No price drop.
Because of that, you won't see me get one very often. The one in my avatar was a good deal. I feel like I paid the max I would be willing to on this one. This was one I had to have but cheaper than most at more like over 4x numismedia. Probably just because NGC gave it a star. I originally offered 2x. But he said he had more than that in it.
It was a lot of hassle and back and forth without the seller budging an inch. Just offering it at ANY reduced price might have been the difference between me buying from him again or not. I hope the profit was worth it because I'll never be back.

Just goes to show you that 100% feedback doesn't make somebody a great seller. That's business and greed for you.

 

No reputable seller would sell a damaged slab. Talk to AJ, he will help you.

 

Thanks for that. I agree. I just got a response from him. He called it 'A' chip and asked hadn't I ever seen a slab with a chip in it. lol He acted like the edge could clearly be seen in the picture. Then he said there's nothing wrong with it because it isn't cracked and so he didn't think to mention it in the auction. Then he says it's only $5 to get it re-holdered. Funny part is, he is an NGC dealer but didn't do it himself.

To his credit, he did tell me to send it back for a full refund but acted like I had the problem. I'm just going to keep it. The seller is mbcoin. Hey, almost 7000 feedback at 100%. It must be me. I'm just an unruly, hard to deal with customer I guess.

 

Post a pic?