How many times must people ask this on the forum ??? they ask and the same people say the same thing ....
Dr. Greg Dubay wrote in the April Letters to the editor of the Numismatist about concerns related to flood water coins, particularly pertaining to some tests he preformed on coins following the devastation of Hurricane Katrina. His tests dealt primarily with bacterial contaminates and he found some very nasty "bugs" indeed. Among them:"pseudomonasis, proteus, staph,strep and E. coli species." Don't clean 'em.......disinfect 'em. :smile
LOL. Definition of insanity doing the same thing over & over but expecting different results. Truth is every one keeps asking the same questions because they don't want to look for the answer then when it's given to them they don't like it. Why? Simply because it's not what they want to hear. Let them clean that Carson city coin that they paid for. When they go to sell it or slab it they will be kicking themselves because they damaged it. Truth be told there are no 'Experts' Many dealers refuse to be called an expert. The information they give you is in your best interest. You stated the coins were 1/2 dollars from the 70's most sell in Brilliant Uncirculated (BU) for just a few dollars. (Less than $3 a piece.) Granted the jewler cleaned them for free but you paid for the gas & the olive oil. All that cost more than the coins were worth. There is a point at which wanting to save something is silly. (This is not intended to insult but can you just edit your post instead of making 3 or more separate posts?)
They are all just opinions. But I'll be honest it's rare that when some one cleans a coin that they do not damage it. But lets be honest I've yet to meet a collector who hasn't attempted to clean them at some point. My examples earlier except for the penny were all cleaned. I saved them all as examples for others. It's amazing how someone gets a collection of coins & the first thing they do is buy Jewelry cleaner or wizz buff them. It is totally ok if you are keeping them & know that by doing so reduce it's value. Some cases it's a lot other not so much. The reason "Don't clean" is uttered so severely is to make a point of this fact. No one says you can't do it they just highly advise that you don't. You can take the advise or not it's each persons call.
You'd take even deeper offense when the Archeologist's successfully petition congress and all the legislators in the world make collecting coins all but illegal because of the stupidity of coin collectors to properly maintain, conserve, and document their coin collections, like it is in Germany now. There is a holier than thou attitude and it is be ignorant collectors who recklessly clean coins, giving the entire hobby a bloody nose in the body of academic and legal circles. Ruben
Fred, I wrote a relatively long post about "wiping" coins awhile back. The electrons are still likely floating around this site somewhere. Got a whole lot of opinions on that post. Here's mine: First and foremost, these are your coins and certainly you should handle them in the way that generates the most enjoyment for you. I have been a collector for many years. I believe of late there has been too much angst over handling and preserving old coins, particularly circulated coins (AU and below). Let's be clear: harsh cleaning, polishing, abrasion, whizzing, etc. is out. That destroys the value of an old coin. Nor would I touch anything purported to be MS62 or better. Leave it alone. However, I believe the hand-wringing over coins dipped in acetone to remove PVC residue, gently using olive oil to preserve coins (particularly copper: this has been an old timers' trick for many many years), and even gently "wiping" a coin to remove loose residue or film is fine. I've even used a holly leave thorn to gently pick dirt out from an old coin that been in a box or rusty storage, etc. (Another trick from old timers). Kind Regards Houston_Ray
You don't offend me at all and I didn't call you a fool. Whenever this thread comes up I will act responsibly to the health and welfare of the hobby, that is I will urge you loudly and bluntly not to clean coins. The example of a 1700 coin is even more urgent. Those coins need professional care. If someone who owns these coins are not up to the task of such professional care, weather that be storage, conservation, and general care, then you are foolishly destroying important historical and cultural artifacts which the entire public has an interest in preserving both for the current and future generations. The overwhelming result of cleaning coins is to destroy the coins. Proper conservation is a fine art and trade, for all artifacts and pieces of art. You must think of your coins as being entrusted to you and not just private property. When you do that two things will happen. First, you'll become a better collector, and secondly, collecting will be more interesting to you and you will get more satisfaction out of it. As I posted earlier, YES. In fact, if the coins are rare enough, it rises to the level or moral obligation to try to conserve those damaged coins. I myself have asked from time to time if it was worth trying to clean a specific coin, specifically a nice Franklin and a Merc. Both times I did so without any grandiose statements about how I have some imperative to clean the coins and both times after talking about possible solutions to the problem I opted not to clean either after throughly examining repeated results to amature coin clean. I also posted photographs of the coins and discussed in detail possible solutions. I might eventually try a water pick on the Merc, as GD suggested in order to attempt to remove some foreign matter on the coin. This was one of those threads: http://www.cointalk.com/forum/t43105/ Never the less, the rule is bluntly, don't clean your coins. Understand the limits of your knowledge and skills base. Remain within your limits. I have considered this question carefully and after a few years of thinking about this, I've come to the conclusion that the best chance of getting someone to not make a potentially huge mistake is to be frank and blunt.
http://www.cointalk.com/forum/t49163-3/#post545127 Well, its really simpler than that. You shouldn't clean your coins. Your a novice and any other advise would be wreckless. People are trying to do you a favor here and save you some heartache. Don't pull on SUperman's cape. Don't spit into the wind, you don't pull the mask of the ole Long Ranger and you don't clean your coins. Everyone here has given you variations of the same answer. And this is not the first time cointalk has been around the block on this topic. But here are some facts to consider. First, I doubt you could tell if a coin was cleaned, cleaned harshly, or done professionally, or never done at all. That means you can't judge the outcome of your work. You would have no clue as to whether you properly conserved your coin or destroyed it. Secondly, Conservation is done for a reason. Either there is some damage to a valuable piece (verdis), it might have awful black or striped toning, or like Jim, you just like to experiment with junk coins to gain the experience. However, any coin is best never cleaned if it remains in an reasonably good condition. ALL CLEANING removes part of the surface of the coin. That surface might also be oxidized and ugly to the point where conservation is warranted. Even Leonardo's "Last Supper" has had conservation. But that needs to be an educated decision and some consultation is worth having before attempting it. You mentioned that dealers have "coin presses". If your friend told you this, 40 years or not in the hobby, he is wrong to the point of absurdity. According to Zane, some of the TPG and highest level dealers do dip coins, semi-regularly. Its not a great practice, even for those with broadly recognized expertise in the matter. Almost NO DEALERS dip coins regularly and the trend is going way down since in the 21st century we've learned just how much damage this does to the coins and even today we have many many collectors like Paul who love toned coins. But most of all, your under the misconception that this is a simple thing to learn to do well, and can be picked up quickly. I hate to break it to you, but it is not either an easy body of knowledge to master, nor can it be picked up in a few minutes on Coin Talk. If your going to clean your coins, your going to lose a lot of nice specimens along the way, without doubt. As Spock said, "Clean in hast, regret it at leisure." There are no secret handshakes going on here. People are trying to protect you from a grievous error. Lets try this, since your so confident in this matter. Which of these coins have been damaged by cleaning This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized %1%2. This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized %1%2. This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized %1%2. This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized %1%2. I'll tell you this much. Most of the folks trying to help you here, people you have been biting in the hand, would know with a quick examination. Ruben
So where am I portraying a holier than thou attitude? A little clip? Maybe, see I'm from NY. If you want to clean your coins (which I know you have already stated you don't) then by all means do so and be done with it. Nobody is stopping you.
Talk about holier than thou. Maybe you should check your ego at the door and consider that you can be wrong
Well, it's like they say, opinions are like aaaaaa....holes, everyone has one. But seriously, this is a chat room and it's better to not take anything too personal, and let it interfere with making friends and developing a core of trusted fellow collectors. At least thats how I look at things, and it seems to work for me.
