"Stolen" Photos on Ebay

Stirrin the pot a little

 

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George Carlin would say stirrin is good and pot is good, so stirrin the pot has to be good!

Ribbit

 

Not to argue with you, because I am on your side with this, but how can you prove that the pictures were stolen by the Chinese sellers and not by the other current auctions you see them listed in? It seems that maybe only the person who owns the photographs or possesses the coin can provide proof. That stinks, but it may be the case. Hopefully not!

 

On one photo, it had the seller's watermark on it and Ebay still wouldn't pull it. :goof: On the others, they were 7 day listings, with less time left on them than the Chinese 3 day listings.

Ribbit

Ps: I also messaged the owners of the pics and they confirmed they didn't give the Chinese sellers permission to use their pics but Ebay didn't even take the time to ask the sellers if they gave permission to use their photos, they just waved their wand and off with the toad. :goof:

 

Now those are good points. Maybe eBay only does it if they run the risk of liability when the owner of the photos complains. Otherwise, why do the right thing if you lose money in the process.

That previous sentence is my opinion of Paypal's business model, and more recently, eBay's as well. Chasing the quick buck regardless of ethics and community approval.

 

Your logic is nice, but you have no proof that the "original" seller did not give his approval. For that matter, you have no proof that the "Chinese" did not take the picture and send it to the "original" seller. You don't even know that a third party did not take the pic and both stole it. And even if you did, why should eBay believe you as opposed to the Chinese.

BTW, your email from the "seller" comes under the category called hearsay.

 

rlm, I heard some hearsay that you have a very "red" RB 25-S. Did you hear that I heard that?

 

Here are the Rules:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/selling-coins.html

Guidelines for coins and paper money sellers:

Read the Code of Conduct for Selling Coins & Paper Money on eBay.

Include all relevant information that is known about the coins or paper money; for example their origin, date of issue, and condition.

Include a clear picture of the actual coin or paper money item that is being offered for sale.

Include all information concerning any alterations that may have been made to the coins or paper money.

Specifically identify every individual coin or paper money item listed to avoid misunderstandings about the nature of the items.

If unsure of the origin or authenticity of the coins or paper money, please state this clearly in the listing.

If members would like advice or information from other coins or paper money enthusiasts, visit eBay's Coins & Paper Money Chat Board.


Maybe I don't know what "actual" means so can someone explain to me how "borrowing" pics is allowed, via the rules quoted above?

Ribbit

 

Toad,

Remember Tom's original post;

He has direct evidence who's pic it is and eBay acted immediately. As I have stated several times, there are only 2 people who have direct evidence - the original photographer and the thief. Anyone else who complains has to have some form of hearsay - by the very definition of the word.

 

With that logic, even a seller can't prove a photo is his, unless they go to major lengths with lawyers and notaries. :goof:

Ribbit

 

Toad,

Each time I've complained to eBay, they did not question me, even though your reasoning is technically correct. I suppose they could or did ask the other seller, and I'd be surprised to see a fraudulent seller try to defend themselves in a situation like that.

 

The owner of the pic in question was unable to get Ebay to respond to his phone calls about it so I reported it using the link to the original pic. I know Tom owns that coin because Tom has said he does and heresay is only applicable in court, not the real world.

BTW - when you buy a coin online, do you go by what the seller says or the photo? So if I list a coin and call it BU then use a MS-67 pic from CoinFacts as an example and I don't mention it's a stock photo and not the actual coin, what will you think when the coin arrives and it's barely a MS-60 and not the one in the pic?

Ribbit

 

The problem with stock photos is that often the photographer will Photoshop out minor defects on a coin in a stock photo because the photo is intended to represent a generic coin rather than a particular coin. When someone uses that stock photo to represent a coin for sale it does not accurately portray a genuine coin - even if the coin for sale is the one in the Photoshopped photo.

 

Is a picture actually required?

 

Here is the response from Ebay on the Chinese sellers that stole other peeps pics (more than one seller using the same identical pics repeatedly):

Dear eac.toad,

Thank you for writing eBay in regard to your report on Image and Text Theft.

I reviewed all the information you sent, but I don't have enough evidence to show that the seller violated any eBay policies.

Sometimes members allow others to use their images. It's also possible that the seller got the photo from the same source or from a source we can't verify. In either case, we can't remove the listing.

The only way we can take action in a case like this is if the person who owns the image or text writes to us directly.

If you feel strongly about this issue, I recommend that you contact the content owner and suggest that he or she contact us. Once we hear from the owner, we can respond appropriately.

It is my pleasure to assist you. Thank you for choosing eBay.

Sincerely,
Nicole"

Ribbit :goof:

 

What would I have to show Ebay if I owned the image?
What would make them take action?

 

Toad, you like to battle eBay, try this one. Those rules you posted are not the rules they follow. You say HUH? There are exceptions to those rules that they do not publish. I have no idea how they figure that is supposed to work. Proof;

1. Go back and read http://www.cointalk.com/forum/t28528/. Remember that this occurred prior to the rules being published.
2. They suspended nearly all rules when they had the "live auctions" for those sellers. That is how they got away with listing specifying non-standard TPG's. I know they have since stopped live auctions.
3. Their rules state that you most show a certified coin in the slab both front and back. However, here is a note they sent me;

If you want something to battle, try those. I have no idea how they can justify not publishing their own rules - all of them.

 

Usually, yes. But not always. See my previous post.

 

Here's another one:

http://cgi.ebay.com/1843-US-Seated-Liberty-One-Dollar_W0QQitemZ250402750094

The reverse came from CoinFacts:

http://www.coinfacts.com/silver_dollars/Seated_Liberty_Dollars/1843_silver_dollar.htm

The obverse came from Collectors Society Forum:

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2698317

It's rare to find multiple source thefts for photo theives.

Ribbit

Ps: Terry in CFE tracked those down. :thumb:

 

They don't have to do anything they don't want to, they are King and can do whatever they please but as history has proven, even Kings have been known to be dethroned, especially when they are bad Kings.

Ribbit