First Heritage Win!

No Mike I 100% respect your opinion. I've been checking out the 1884 in 66 for a while online (couldn't find any at shows around me) I did think the price was a little higher than the prices I've seen (around 30-40 less than I paid), but IMO this coin is the nicest 66 I have seen, I believe Heritage had around 7 in the auction.
One thing though that I think you missed was the coin was on the auctions internet bidding only, there wasn't any floor bidding, but I'm not sure, would that mean people didn't get to see it in hand.

 

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I looks at the auctions and I still think the coin is a 65

But you know what matters. You shopped for the coin and evaluated the options and brought it at the market price you felt comfortable with and now you have a terrific coin which I would have purchased no PROBLEM.

Ruben

 

I'm glad that you feel that way, and in the end that's all that matters!

I'm also glad that you didn't take offense to my post.

Take care...Mike

p.s. people absolutely got to see that coin in person. Just because a coin auctioned at the floor doesn't mean it isn't available to be viewed at the show. Quite to the contrary, in my experience (admittedly at FUN, not ANA, but I would expect it to be no different). Heritage typically rents a large room at each show and provides private viewing of all coins -- just hand them a list of auction lots and you'll have the coins delivered to you and a nice table to sit at and study them.

p.p.s. viewing 1000 coins on the internet isn't as valuable as viewing 10 coins in-hand. Don't fall into the trap of trying to grade the upper MS grades from photos or you'll only grade for ticks and taps. Whereas the TPGS look at much more than that including eye appeal and luster which are even more important than ticks and taps, IMO, and PRACTICALLY IMPOSSIBLE to judge from photos.

 

That's why prices are lower for that year and the high number is due to so many coming out of the GSA Hoard.

I still like it, even given the odd POP.

Ribbit

 

congrats

 

Why thank you, Ruben!

Ribbit

 

I don't agree with that. One thing about Heritage is it makes comparative shopping very easy. In the end i think you need to do both.

Ruben

 

You have a lot to learn, my young padawan.

 

p.s. I agree, you do have to do both. But if you think you can compare/micrograde coins through Heritage photos, particularly 66 Morgans, you do have a lot to learn, IMO.

 

depends on who is doing the viewing mike

 

Well, at my age I find looking at blown up photos of coins easier than squinting through a loup. On the other hand, you now have a new element to contend with which is what photography does with the photograph in addition to all the other stuff.

That is where Doug really excels as a grader. He really knows how to interpret photographs.

Ruben

 

Beautiful Morgan...as far as price..you did your research...you made your bid..you won..you sound happy..what's not to like?

 

Good point Spock!

With some experience of viewing coins in-hand and also seeing photographs you can become much more adept at picking out the good ones. For instance, viewing coins online then going to the show and seeing those same coins will allow you to get a better feel for how the coin appears in-hand.

However, to say that someone who's never viewed a coin in-hand before from Heritage can be expected to compare coins from other sources/auctions with any certainty is where I begin to doubt. Hell, I've been doing it for years and am still clueless. But then again, maybe that's just me.

 

That's why I'm going to stick to buying coins in hand. I don't have the mojo yet to figure out the "truthiness" in coin photos.

 

Mike,

Out of curiosity, what method are using to determine that the value of an 1884-CC Morgan MS66 is $700. Looking at past prices realized, I don't see that. Maybe dealers should expect to pay $700, but for a collector, $800 seems right around ballpark.

I won't get into buying sight unseen with you, but I will ask a question. What are you supposed to do if you simply can't attend major shows?

 

Very good point. I suffer from the same problem, as well. The larger photos help immensely when it comes to judging technical grades (and ticks & taps). Don't tell anyone :secret: , but I use a camera instead of a loupe when examining a coin in detail, and use my (aging) eyes to judge eye appeal and luster.

You guys really need to get a room. :hug:

Seriously, I agree.

 

I find I miss things when I view the coins in hand. Especially when I buy from Stacks.

Ruben

 

$700 at auction -- I took a quick look at prior auction prices at TT and Heritage.

Please remember, this wasn't a collector purchasing a coin from a dealer, it was a collector purchasing a coin at auction. I also don't think this is a high end-66, but I also admit that in so saying I would be contradicting myself... The coin has significant marks on the cheek and forehead and appears to have a few hairlines on the lower jaw as well. Certainly not precluding a 66 grade with booming luster, but not a strong 66, IMO. That doesn't make it a bad coin -- far from it -- but neither would I spend a premium on it given its conditional rarity.

If he brought that coin to a dealer tomorrow, he'd be lucky to get $600, and I suspect the cash price of these coins (without consulting my greysheet) is significantly lower than that. But that's the coin game....as we all know.

Learn the hard way, just like he's doing -- just like you did, and just like I did.

Alternatively, he could try and become friends with either a dealer that attends the auctions, or an advanced collector/mentor who doesn't mind viewing a few lots for him, and that would help.

But I think, really, that he needs to attend a show and study the coins online before going, then viewing a bunch of coins in hand. (Get someone more experienced than him to do the same thing and view the coins at the same time.) That's why I said what I did about seeing 1000 coins online isn't worth as much as 10 coins in person -- and this is even more so for the 66 and up grades, IMO, where the differences become much more subtle.

I know that I made a quantum leap forward in my numismatic education when I did the above, and am just trying to share in hopes of at least speeding up the education of my fellow budding numismatists.

 

I never make a major online purchase without consulting with Doug. God knows what I do when I'm his age

 

Okay,

I am really confused now. Is there a different greysheet price for coins sold at auction? My point is that a dealer that buys an 1884-CC Morgan MS66 with that much (apparent) eye appeal is going to spend between $650-$750 and sell it for $750-$850. You said he overpaid for the coin, I say he paid retail for the coin.

I know what you are getting at with seeing coins in hand, but for most collectors, that really isn't practical. Factor in transportation, lodging, food, and tips, and overpaying $100 for a coin seems like a good deal to me.

Now if you are in the market for a $5K+ coin, then I think you better see it in hand first. That is just my crazy way of looking at, right or wrong, no matter, it is just my two cents.