Counterfeits & ANACS

If the dealer sold the bike to me as a Harley or there were Harley logos on it to deliberately misinform me, I would want my money back and a few laws would most likely be broken. On the other hand, it is not illegal to buy, sell, or own a Yamaha Roadstar because it is only competition for Harley- Davidson and not a counterfeit. Just as it is not illegal to own foreign currency that may look similar to ours. Your analagy compares competition to copyright infringement; two completely different things.

 

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They do stamp it a counterfeit in a way. They will not license it as a Harley they will license it as a Custom. They take away the Harley designation all together,

 

I think they should slab it. and in GREAT BIG letters state clearly. COUNTERFEIT!

 

What's to stop the owner from cracking it out of the slab and reselling it? I thing stamping the coin as counterfeit would be better, but it does nothing to go after the guy that illegally produced it.

 

I think the three KEYS here are: Replica, Intent to defraud, and Counterfeit.... Counterfeit implies intent to defraud. Replicas are legally bought and sold for everything from coins to Gold bars to Elvis memorabilia.

 

As long as the non-genuine coin has "replica" or something to that effect stamped into it like it is supposed to, I'm in agreement. That's the law, and I agree with that also.

 

I wanted to get a Henning Nickel authenticated and slabbed but none of the major TPG's will do it. It's an interesting counterfeit, in that it has historical significance and if I sent it in to have it authenticated as a Henning Nickel, I would not want COPY stamped on it but it is a special situation, since I want it slabbed as a specific counterfeit so the slab would designate it as a counterfeit and a stamp would not be necessary and since it would be worth a lot more in the slab than broken out, there would be a loss in value by cracking it out to use for 5 cents in commerce, so by slabbing the counterfeit it makes it more valuable than face value and there would be no way it would make it back into circulation.

Also, for those of you that caught me saying I would not want my Henning Nickel stamped COPY, don't even go there! :goof: In the scenario above, I clearly sent the nickel in to have it authenticated as a counterfeit and not authenticated as authentic, so no fraud was involved, like what is occurring with all the Chinese counterfeits that are flooding the marketplace these days. So don't be mixing apples and oranges, unless you like fruit punch. :goofer:

I wish the TPG's would look at authenticating historical counterfeits. :thumb:

Ribbit

 

:high5:

See. That wasn't so hard, was it? :high5:

 

I knew you'd get a b*ner on that one. Speaking of which, I miss the Boner. I wish he'd get over "it" and get his butt back in here. His threads on early silver were so much fun to read. :thumb:

Ribbit

 

Nothing at all. But would you send a coin in knowing it was a counterfeit that it would come back slabbed that way? How much money would you like to throw away doing this? Let the submitter go after the person they purchased it from if its a legit submission on their part. They now have proof from a major TPG that the coin they purchased is a fake.

 

I've seen those on Ebay being sold as authentic and using the returned submission form to do it. :goof: On one, it was a probable 1801 DBC sent in to PCGS as a 1804 and returned, so they listed it on Ebay as a 1804 and even posted the submission form.

So, someone is out a few thousand dollars for a Chinese counterfeit 1889-CC Morgan and they just lost another hundred getting it authenticated (NOT) so they stick it back on Ebay to try to get some of their money back and someone else is scammed. That sounds like a winner! :goof:

Ribbit

Ps: There are some counterfeits worthy of being slabbed, but you'd have to know more about counterfeits to understand that. :whistle:

 

Sorry but the end of the analogy between the BMV and the TPG would be the BMV confiscates the bike, or puts it in the crusher and "Sorry it's up to you to get your money back we don't do that."

 

Here is where you went wrong, Conder:

Excerpt from ANACS letter:

So for the analogy to have been correct, it would have had to be EXACTLY as I stated.

Ribbit

Ps: I corrected your typos.

 

Well Mr Toad, with all your vast knowledge why don't you enlighten us on which of the counterfeits should be slabbed and which shouldn't and perhaps a reason. Perhaps I will enlighten James Taylor at ANACS in our next conversation of your request. Never underestimate who may be on the other end of a keyboard that your talking to on the internet my friend. You certainly don't know me anymore then I know you.

 

James has already read this thread so he's aware of my comment.

As to which ones, I think Hobo can answer that question best.

Calling Hobo! :loud:

Ribbit

Ps: As to "perhaps a reason" I'd say ones with historical significance. :thumb: Henning Nickels are famous, thus, they have a historical significance about them and should be preserved for posterity.

 

Don't drag me into this. :hug:

 

There are no Hobo Laws protecting you from abuse.

Ribbit

 

What about elder abuse?

 

Elder abuse should never be allowed, except in cases where the person doing the abuse, isn't in the Will of the elder twurp that left them out of their Will. :whistle:

Ribbit

 

So what if they claim the coin is a fake but is actually a genuine coin with striking characteristics that they are not aware of? How many grading services can properly diagnose, say, a weak strike 1908 Indian $2.50 which Breen notes is plagued by striking problems on the eagle? Or what if the fake is an electrotype that was made in the 1800s? Or a contemporary counterfeit 1861 3-cent piece which Breen notes was made in sizable quantities?