Me and Noost are trying to learn something about coin grading. Here is a question; Could the grade of a coin be higher, even if it isn't any better than the grade guides, if it is rare or very low mintage. In other words, if it were the only coin in existance, would it be an MS 70 ?
I would think grading standards would apply regardless of a coins rarity. Many of the most famous rarities are not high MS grades, or even uncirculated for that matter. A grade is a grade. Guy~
It shouldn't be, but often the services will give a rare coin a "bump" to a grade higher than it really deserves based on detail. But they won't give a coin a 70 just because it is unique. For example one of the most commonly encountered examples is the 1916-D dime in low grades. A lot of the coins in slabs graded Good or sometimes even VG have detail grades no better than AG with the rims worn into the letters.
Yes and no. Yes and no. The no is if it's the only coin in existence it would be graded according to it's condition - you can do nothing else in that case. The yes is when there are only a few and you happen to find one better as I did it 2000 with a 1971-P DDO-001 FS#25cent 27.7 a very rare Washington Quarter doublED die. It was featured in a 10-02-2000 Coin World Article by Ken Potter. Honestly when I sent it in to ANACS I thought I would get maybe a VF-35, what I got was an AU-53 - blew my mind! After selling it to Billy Crawford we discussed it and the only explanation was it was so rare and better than all the ones found they graded it according to census of coins know so far??? That was the only explanation - it is, in fact so rare it has been deleted from the modern Cherry Pickers editions. Why? I have never been able to find out??? But this is not the only case in point. There are tons of type coins that hardly ever come with things like full strikes, nice planchets, good color and on and on. When exceptional coins previously not know in that grade or strike come on the market those factors are figured in, maybe not every time but often. Of course we have all also seen the under-graded or over-graded TPG slabs from every service. One more example - I am sure that somewhere, someone has a roll of several singles of a 1926-S Lincoln cent in gem red. Now this coin in MS-65 Red is well over $100,000 dollars because there is only one known. But let another come on the market that rivals and/or slightly exceeds the one known, and if the owners knows all this they well could give an otherwise MS-65 Red a MS-66 or 67 and maybe a 68. There are exceptions to every rule in life and especially to coin grading - this is the thing that drives people like engineers and accountants crazy because they cannot "get their hands around it". But the truest answer to 99.9 of all questions in life is "it depends" and if you don't think so you are setting yourself up for frustration after frustration because there is hardly anything "set in stone".
When you have a coin that is unique. Grade plays no part per se in the value of the coin. At least from I have seen over the decades. ie.. 1913 nickel. what difference does a grade make, the pedigrees are in place and they are know as the finest example or the worst example. MS70 is a misconception created by hype. Has anyone here really ever seen a PERFECT coin? The planchet is perfect, the composition of the metal is perfect, the die alignment is perfect, the strike is precise and perfect, there is an environment in place to make sure that there is no dust or debris's present, the list goes on. OK, so you gonna say yes to all of the above. Are you good enough to determine a low end MS70 from a high end MS69? say a MS69.5? There is a fundamental flaw in the Sheridan grading sytem because of this. Lets take this a little further, Are you a better grader than lets say the gang at NGC? Opinions.....
I'd still have to say the grade stands regardless of a coin's rarity or pedigree or anything. There is nothing in the grading standards that excludes coins based on this. If your colorblind, that doesn't mean a tree is blue instead of green just because thats how you percieve it. Guy~
OK, What about this ? You see a 1916 D Mercury for sale and its grade is AG. You really need or want this coin because it is unique or hard to come by. Are you going to limit your highest bid at $ 1,000.00 because it is AG, or will you pay more as if it were a higher graded coin ?
Strictly speaking grade doesn't change. but in the real world grade is affected by both the rarity of the coin in high mint condition or the eye appeal of the coin if it is particularly superb. So there is some bend...which perhaps there should be because it is market grading. Ruben
Also, some coins are given higher grades because the history of the coin is such that it is nearly impossible to find an true gem. Old Coppers particularly will grade within the confines of what 1794 coppers can be expected to be found after 210 years of exposure on relatively cheap metal. Many need to be cleaned to be preserved and there is some tolerance of that overwhelming fact. Ruben
I wouldn't pay more as if it were a higher graded coin. I would pay more because it's a hard coin to find in ANY grade, though. Supply and demand doesn't dictate grade, but yes, it does dictate price. In that sense, I agree. Guy~
Actually it did originally affect grades but the grades have become more calificated in time. The original 0-70 scale was a multiple of the price of the coin for quick pricing calculations. Ruben
Actually I thought it was getting out of hand when it went to those numerous statements. I came up with G, F, Unc and Proof only. That's all there was and that was all we needed. Then peopel just had to complicate things with VG, VF, AU added to a normal system. I was about to give up when they started with EF. Sort of like has been noted already. Now we have this 70 point system and lots of G's, F's, Unc's, and even different Proofs. Rare, Unique, etc has nothing to do with that silly 70 point system. It is really used by so many as a cost system though. For example a coin of AU-50 is so much cheaper than a AU-55. Dealers use this to tell customers how lucky they are to have a MS-64 since it could have been a MS-63 you know. All a little nutty to me. I'm waiting for the next step. A 1,000 point system. Picture a coin graded as EF-693.826639 approximately.
This is not correct info. "in the real world" and perception This is not correct info. "in the real world" in fact, it's never correct anywhere because it's the astute collector that can and often does profit by finding these little nuggets of better struck, harder date coins. You are right, though about perception. It is everything the colorblind person "sees what he sees" - that then becomes his/her reality. Who's to say all the rest of us with so called normal vision are seeing the correct color to begin with? Here's a good one for you, "I put a solid red table in a completely dark room" - "is it then still a red table"? Many say yes but I say no - why, because it's light that creates color, with no light the table really has no color, therefore it ceases to be red. Look to say a grade stands on it's own is in effect saying that coin grading is scientific - it is not - if it were it would be fairly boring and many of us would not be here. Plus what is wrong with a little ambiguity - it's the stuff of life. Look you bring me a raw perfect XF-45 1922 No D Lincoln without a mark on it, perfect color, even some red left, totally original but still, by technical standards a XF-45 and just see what the big "3" TPG companies would give it. Further, see what money you could get. I'll bet 2 out the "3" TPG's would give it an AU and you could sell it for AU $$$ - so then, if it act likes a AU and walks like a AU is it not an AU? "No but", You know there are so many "No buts" in this world is it not the "no buts" that make the world go round - or in other words, is it not the "no buts" that are the reality of life regarless of "so called set in stone technical grading standards" - after all were they not supposed to be a guild?
