By the way...While visiting my local coin shop today, I heard a compressed air hose running about every 3-4 minutes and as far as I can tell, there weren't pumping up tires or the like. What were they doing? Just blowing off their shoes?
coin press. got it. Really is silly this "we don't clean coins" thing. 90% (or more) of the older circulated coins have been cleaned. Very strange this shrouded secrecy. Got some other "facts" similar to "we don't clean coins". 1) The government always tells the truth. 2) No one has sex before marriage.3) The world is flat, and oh yeah, ALL those nice shiny coins you see at your local coin shop on display, you know, the 1800's Morgans, were all stored in a vault until last week. All those AU and VF coins were all kept in an air tight plastic encased environment, and they couldn't have possibly gotten any scratches over the years of circulation. Of course, the only way that can possibly happen, is if some "newbie" cleans it, and then, "everybody will know" when we go to sell it. Got it.
I'd never clean a coin.... I've tried to tone a coin once, it worked, I used some kinda chemicals and it gave it a brown tone, good thing i used a useless 2003 dime! I'd never tamper with a coin
It's not that they treat people like idiots so much, but the fact that THEY, and only THEY, with their secret handshake/secret password mentality, are able to successfully clean coins. I am a newbie, but I have talked with several very knowledgable who are not newbies in the field. All have said that it is indeed done almost routinely. I appreciate your honesty BHP, and appreciate speaking clearly and simply, and not goin' round and round in circles. Peace.
Banner should say "We don't want you to clean your coins, but for a small fee...we can..." (with our compressed air "coin presses").
Yeah - I used my allotment of Flame Wars this week in the Website Software thread...sorry. Maybe in a few months... Ruben
Fun post Tom- your a wild guy like me. Unfortunately you won't get far with this crowd. Look on my user page and search my posts on cleaning and similar topics. I have said many such things, not quite as direct, but similar. There is an interesting arguement about leaving oil on MS red copper that swayed me not to put on as the sulfur can react in time and blurr the cartwheel luster and dull the look of the coin. The chemist on this site appeared to have demonstrated that pretty well. I don't know what's in lighter fluid specifically, but I know it's not a commonly used substance even by the coin docs. I would stick with xylene (which smells awful, so use gloves and mask) and rinse with distilled water. I remove verdigris on AU or below coins with Verdigone, which I think I already mentioned so forgive me if I repeat myself. This product is excellent IMHO. Long acetone soaks will act like a weak acid and remove toning and you probably won't like the effect. It messed up a key coin of mine, as I stated earlier. I have scratched coins with a rose thorn, even recently despite my best efforts. They are small scratches on AU coins and will tone if left in a paper flip or exposed to air. Those coins still look better in my opinion as all the dirt/grime removed. It takes a lot of practice to master this technique. Less is more here and very light pressure. These are the things I know and have learned by reading everything I could. I have used Blue Ribbon, and Coin Care. Some say these leave films after a period of time if not removed. I did experience that with Coin Care. Time will tell for me. All coins have natural oils in them, especially circulated ones. Take an EF coin and soak it a long time in acetone. The scratches will start to appear that you could not see even with a 20 power loope. Those natural oil fill in the ridges. This is why I don't believe mineral oil, in particular will harm AU coins and below. However, a certain amount of my coins with such scratches I have acetoned and then distilled water and then put in album or in paper flip to let the toning fill in the scratches and nicks from normal wear. A lot of people do some or many of the methods I am saying. Some do nothing, put in storage and end of story. A lot of people lie about what they do which is what your picking up on here and on many coins sites. Though I found if you can stomache the insults on NGC boards they are much keener to this subject in my opinion. Many great threads there, though I don't post a lot due to the crazy insults that get thrown around. The moderators are good about that on this site I believe. This subject has been debated many times, but you are persistant and will find your own way. I will say I started off too aggressive and have backed off a lot, so it never hurts to wait and be sure you want to touch a coin you like or that's nice. That said, verdigris is bad and if can be safely removed without harming the coin it is needed. Many times it won't grow if starved of oxygen and moisture. Oil does do this as well, as airtites, and slabs for the most part. Keep posting TOM. You'll always get an interesting debate on this subject. And Benjamin's points (BPH) are excellent as well. I agree. And yes GD is right: only gold can be pulled from the sea after 150 years and go into a PCGS slab via the work of NCS. There would be nothing left of copper.
surely the expectations are minting daily . i cant become another GD or i will lose my hair but you are right if the coin has verdigris or pvc or or or any other substance on it that will damage the coin if left on the coin than it has t be conserved. having conserved a few hundred coins i am sick of conservation but i am glad its there as a tool
Thanks for the posts Boss and Spock. Points taken. I think I really do understand the importance/ramifications of this whole subject from even the "purist" view. I just got really bummed when I go to a supposedly somewhat of a specialty thread, where the knowledge is obvious, but I couldn't get a real direct answer from people that obviously know. If the answer came sooner, maybe something like "It has been done and certainly is done routinely, but not recommended..." or, "These are some of the methods that can work, however.."Yes, it can be done successfully, but, .." However I got little of that, and more of "We don't do that. Shame!! How dare you suggest that!" and ' "I've never done that or heard of that", which is obviously inaccurate. I wanted accuracy,... reason I asked. I did read a lot of very good information, and true opinions, which is great, but generally very misleading, for reasons I don't quite understand. I guess I wanted simple answers/facts more than opinions. I wanted opinions too, but, facts..,accurate facts first.. I liken it to a kid asking (of appropriate age) "Where do babies come from?", and then tell them something like, "Well that's not something I approve of and never you mind". Silly. I just thought the place to ask for facts, would be to ask people that know, which I thought was here, and eventually, got SOME direct information, but I had to dig and dig elsewhere to confirm most of the facts. If, right off the bat, one "paints" the picture the way they see it over the facts, well, regardless of how much good information you find, you have to question the motives of the folks who supposedly know the facts. Anyway..I will still look to this forum for good information,as I've found much. I guess I just have to further verify it elsewhere first, before I can accept it as fact, rather than assuming it's accurate (which is what I was trying to avoid initially..that is..searching and searching). I guess my bad..Peace
If we, so many of us have such strong opinions If we, so many of us have such strong opinions and disagreements on the subject how in the world is someone new to the hobby going to make any sense of this subject so here is the rules - take em or leave em! Don't clean any coins ever! This is certainly safe advice but sort of self limiting don't you think. One things for certain you will never ruin a coin this way. This is self limiting advice for people who think black or white. Clean all your coins all the time! This is kind of like saying, "heck there's no coin like a cleaned coin". This advice is for the baby that got throwed out with the bath water. Clean some but not others! Well which ones deserve cleaning, or, "how do I know which one to clean and which one not to clean"? This advise is somewhat close to the truth but also self limiting and gives people that wink, wink sort of, "why do I feel left out here?" Finally - Learn proper coin cleaning/conserving. Learn and study coins and grading. Ask experts in the field, never attempt it the first few hundred times on anything with true numismatic value. Listen, read, look and continue to gain knowledge as needed to always try to make the best decisions regarding any type of cleaning/conserving. Always have the coins aesthetics in mind and never attempt to do anything to any coin unless (through the above experience) you genuinely believe it will help preserve and improve that particular coin. Additionally, if you do not want to clean your coins don't - they are your coins do what you need to do to feel you are doing the best thing for you. Know always that you will make mistakes and like anything else in life there are no easy, black and white answers to anything that has value or is worth serious pursuit. This advice is for the person who wants and desires the whole story and will work to learn which truth is most applicable in most situations for them. This person will not accept the answer "don't ever clean coins" anymore than he would "clean all coins all the time" or "clean some and not others". The answer for this latter collector is, knowledge, experience, empowerment, and a strength in his/hers own ability's to discern a lot of complex information for his/her own future enjoyment of our fabulous hobby.
<<I just got really bummed when I go to a supposedly somewhat of a specialty thread, where the knowledge is obvious, >> What is obvious, despite the silly reference to all knowingness of 19th century science and numismatics, is don't CLEAN your coins, especially since your a novice.
Consider using CP (Chemically Pure), Odorless Mineral Oil, Alcohol, and Acetone products. CP products can be purchased at the pharmacy. To avoid cross contamination, these liquids should be used once & discarded. Blue Ribbon will leave a benign protective coating on copper coins. Very best regards, collect89
Tom you apparently still have a few things to learn. First and foremost - probably 99% of the people misuse the term "clean" when talking about coins. In this hobby, terminology is everything. They have a lot of different words because it is necessary to have them so that others can correctly understand you when you discuss something. Now to most folks, it wouldn't matter if you used soap & water, a brillo pad, acetone or xylene, coin dip, lemon juice, vinegar, olive oil, hot sauce or battery acid to "clean" your coins - every single one of them is cleaning. Well the truth of the matter is that is just not true. Dipping a coin is not the same as cleaning it. Yes, technically it is, but as I said we have different terms to convey different meanings. Now all of those things I mentioned above is harmful to coins - every single one. However, if used properly, a coin can be dipped so that the foremost expert in the world could not tell the coin had been dipped, except by using deductive reasoning. In other words, it does no harm to the coin if done properly. But if done improperly, it can do great harm to coin. Same kind of thing for acetone. Most will tell you it will not harm a coin. Well, it will, unless you use it properly. Same for xylene. As for the rest, there is no proper way to use them, they will harm your coins period. Pretty much the same can be said of any other substance known to man. You name it, at some point in time somebody somewhere has used it to try and clean a coin. And they screwed 'em up, every single time. Yeah they will tell you, it didn't hurt my coins - they look great ! There's a reason for that, because they lack experience they cannot see the damage they did. Trained eyes can see it at a glance. Now everything I've said in this post I've posted hundred times already - if not more. I have explained it to death. Yes, coins can be "cleaned". But is always recommended that you do not attempt to do so unless and until you have the necessary experience. Otherwise you ARE going to screw up your coins. There is no maybe about it - that is an absolute fact. So it is usually just a lot easier to tell people - DO NOT CLEAN YOUR COINS - than it is to type all this out every single time somebody ask the question. And over the past 7 or 8 years I have typed all this out well over 100 times - it gets old after a while. So excuse me for not wanting to do it again. Nevertheless, here it is, one more time.
