Coins that are out of your comfort zone!

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by JayAg47, Dec 24, 2020.

  1. JayAg47

    JayAg47 Well-Known Member

    Often times we simply overlook certain types of (ancient) coins. For the sake of this thread I'm not talking about expensive or ultra-rare coins, but the ones we can afford to buy, yet not choose to!
    Sure I'd like to have an one or two coins of below examples, but not prepared to actively seek them out!
    1. I just can't get behind any Roman coins from the Constantine era onward, I find them just boring, no variation in the busts, with same reverse designs, the only aspect that makes the late Roman coins interesting (at least to me) are the different mints.
    2. Chinese coinage, their bronze cast coins (not their blade/knife money) had no such variations for more than two millennia but only for the change in their authority names.
    3. Islamic coins, not all are same, some of the early Islamic coins, and the coins issued from newly conquered lands which incorporate their local culture are interesting. But I'm talking about majority of dirhams, dinars, and rupees that just have the names of the authority with no noticeable variations (similar to the Chinese coins).

    Sorry if I've offended anyone here,
    Tell me at which type of coins you go meh'
     
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  3. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Well-Known Member

    I think there's a difference between being out of one's comfort zone and coins one thinks are boring.

    My comfort zone is limited. It's pretty much the coins of the Roman principate, both imperial and provincial.

    I get a little less comfortable with coins of the Roman dominate or Roman Republic, though I have numerous references and can attribute just about any coin from these areas.

    Byzantine coins are barely in my comfort zone and I have a hard time attributing worn/poorly struck examples.

    Greek coins are out of my comfort zone, but I can read Greek and have many Greek references. Nonetheless, there are many Greek coins I would have a hard time attributing.

    Indo-Greek are even more out of my comfort zone.

    East Asian, South Asian and Islamic coins are well out of my comfort zone and I couldn't attribute any of them.

    So here's one that's out of my comfort zone. But does it make me go "meh"?

    5293824.jpg
     
  4. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    I believe many of us avoid #2 and #3 because we do not read the language even to the point that we don't see the non alphabetic writing as 'writing'. Late Roman is a different matter. The standard (and low) count of Falling Horsemen is 2200 variations. I maintain that, were they more rare, the type would draw the interest of something like Hadrian's travel series but people have no respect for what they can have too easily though few of them have even looked at the possibilities.

    Below are two coins that are much more rare than most of the popular coins but are lumped together as 'Late Roman Meh'. Those who do not specialize do not care to read their language any more than they do Chinese or Arabic.
    rx7175bb3070.jpg rx7177bb3163.jpg
     
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  5. Paul M.

    Paul M. Well-Known Member

    I totally agree. In terms of ancient coins, I'm very comfortable with Antonine imperial silver. I'm generally fine with the rest of Antonine coinage and I can deal with first century coinage alright. I don't really have a good handle on anything past the 3rd century, although I'm not intimidated by them. I own RIC 3, and I use a site that has the full text of Cohen online. I'm able to read enough French that Cohen isn't difficult to reference. This is about where the center of my comfort zone ends.

    Stuff I just don't like, or which bores me would include basically any coin smaller than 10mm diameter (don't want to drop them and lose them), Republican coinage that have any variation of the Roma/chariot motif (meh), most aes grave (don't know how to authenticate them), and the really debased later denarii and antoniniani (just generally don't like the look of them). I also don't care much for most fourrées and any of the later Roman coinage that tends to be of fairly miserable quality.

    What kinds of stuff would I like to buy? Well, everything within my comfort zone is generally fair game, and, as I mentioned, I'll buy outside my comfort zone from someone I trust. My aes grave sextans falls under the latter category, as do the couple of provincial coins I own. Most people I've shown the sextans to think it looks like a bright green rock, and I can't say I disagree. It is definitely not a coin I sought out, but I saw it in a dealer's tray at a show, the price was acceptable, it was interesting, and I knew the guy was knowledgeable and honest, so I bought it. But, that's probably both the beginning and the end of my aes grave purchases, unless something really jumps out at me.

    Other than that, there's some threshold price which I'm not exactly sure of, but which is probably around $50, below which I'll buy just about anything I find vaguely interesting. My one, single, solitary fourrée, a Gordian III denarius which I bought for $10 on a whim at a show, falls under this category.

    To summarize: the set of "stuff I will buy" is larger than my comfort zone. Stuff I will buy that's outside my comfort zone can be further broken down into "stuff I will buy with help," and "stuff I will buy if it's interesting and cheap enough." I own coins in all these categories and will probably continue to buy along these lines for as long as I continue to collect. Everything else is pretty much the "meh" category.
     
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  6. gsimonel

    gsimonel Well-Known Member

    Let me guess. Is it because of the broken legend for Constantius Gallus, who was merely a caesar and not an emperor?
     
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  7. Mat

    Mat Ancient Coincoholic

    Easy one for me, Chinese Cash coinage. I really can stand the coins in any way. A large part is because they look the same and lack any portraits. The other issue is, and I guess I am stupid, I can't even pronounce the majority of the names. And because of the names, I can't learn the history and therefore ignore it. I've tried but it's a no-go.

    It's like me with Automobiles. It kills my dad that I never got into cars like him and his late dad/brother, but I never showed any interest. I just see them as getting to point A to point B and back.

    I also have no interest in Rudes, Hacksilver, Spades, and ring money.
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2020
  8. furryfrog02

    furryfrog02 Well-Known Member

    Everything is out of my comfort zone!

    That being said, there is noting I avoid because of that. Any chance to learn something new is great.

    There are some types that I don't have, like Islamic coins, not because of lack of comfort but because I just haven't naturally branched out that way yet.
     
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  9. medoraman

    medoraman Supporter! Supporter

    I under the OP's statements about all three. I think #1 is easiest, since there ARE interesting series other than he is talking about. There are the wolf and twins with variants between the stars, fallen horsemen with different hats of the enemy depicting different enemies of Rome, anepigraphic issues, Julian marjorianas, etc. Get Guido Bruck's book and you will find some "meat" in the era if you want to check it out.

    #2 and #3 depends on your interest. Since I am interested in Central Asia, there is a ton of overlap with both series for coins and geographies I am interested in. This forces me to at least dip my toe in the water of both.

    I would add to the OP's list Indian coins starting around Chandragupta. I love Indo-Greek, Indo Scythian, Kushan, Hunnic issues, but start being native rulers and I lose interest. Just too stylized for me, and start losing the ability to follow.
     
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  10. Victor_Clark

    Victor_Clark all my best friends are dead Romans Dealer

    You don't sound very familiar with Constantinian coinage. I have a page with over 100 different types

    http://www.constantinethegreatcoins.com/types/

    Some are indeed very common, others quite rare.

    ps- my avatar is one of those boring busts with no variation
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2020
  11. Parthicus

    Parthicus Well-Known Member

    For me, it's more the "meh" factor than "comfort zone", if comfort zone means ability to ID and understand the coins. I feel, if I really get interested in a collecting area, I will figure out whatever's necessary to understand the coins, by reading appropriate reference materials and searching illustrated dealers' lists and auctions. With absolutely no offense intended for those who do find these areas fascinating, some areas I just can't motivate myself to collect in any serious way:

    1. Roman after the Severan dynasty. There's still interesting (and tolerably well-documented) history after the Severans, but I just am not as attracted to the later coinage. And, honestly, the period of military emperors gets kind of tedious- one guy proclaims himself emperor, rules for about a year without accomplishing anything, gets killed by a rival who rules for a year or two to no effect, lather, rinse, repeat.
    2. (Most) Medieval European. The history and culture of medieval Europe is something I find interesting, that's not the problem. But most of the coinage is pretty lackluster in both design and in execution (tiny flans, weak strikes, etc.), not just compared to classical standards but judged by contemporary output from the Islamic world. Some exceptions for me are Armenia and Norman Sicily, both areas I hope to expand on in the future.
    3. Classical and Hellenistic Greek. In this case, it's not so much "meh"- there's plenty of beauty in Greek coinage that's not hard to appreciate. But there are just so many different issuing cities, kingdoms, alliances, etc. that it's hard for me to focus. I've picked up a few along the way, and will continue to do so, but mainly because that particular coin happened to grab my eye, not as part of any larger plan.

    Again, this is not to say that those coins aren't worth collecting or studying, just that my money, time, and interest are finite and I choose to focus on different areas.
     
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  12. Limes

    Limes Well-Known Member

    To use a more positive approach: I'm currently interested in Roman late republic/imperatorial, and the empire up and including the severan dynasty. It's a matter of taste I guess, somehow I find these areas the most interesting, even since high school.
    I do believe however that at some point in time my interests may expand to other ancient coinage, such as Greek, Roman provincial, Constantine dynasty ... I don't know. I find these coins already interesting to look at, and read their descriptions. The reasons why I don't pursue those area's further at the moment, are money and time. Perhaps in the future, yes, and I might even explore medieval coinage, from the Netherlands.

    I don't think any ancient coin is 'boring', there's always a story behind them. It's just a matter of interest which areas/era's attract you the most. I don't see myself collecting e.g. Chinese coins. But that does not mean they are boring.
     
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  13. ancient coin hunter

    ancient coin hunter 3rd Century Usurper

    I collect virtually all types of Imperial coinage, some Greeks of the period of the diadochoi but not Republican coins for the most part, though I have a few of them.
     
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  14. otlichnik

    otlichnik Well-Known Member

    For me thems is fightin' words....

    Just kidding, but you highlighted three areas I collect.

    I began with late Roman bronzes and that is still my main focus. I will admit that there is little variation in the busts compared to earlier, but there is still interesting detail. And as for the reverses....

    edited - forum rules

    While collecting late Roman coins I bought a few large lots of uncleaned from Jordan and Israel. These lots contained a wide variety of ancient and medieval coinage of the region including Islamic coins. That started me on the collection study of these coins. Sure there are few will anything except Islamic writing, and most collectors can't read that. But that doesn't mean there isn't interest.

    Finally, I started collecting Chinese coins after picking up an old string while on a business trip to PRC. My collection has since grown to several thousand. I have gone through several stages. First I just wanted to ID the various types. Learn the characters and see which Emperors, etc. Then I discovered that there were many minor variations in the calligraphy that have been tracked and catalogued in the East fo centuries. I am still sorting my coins by these variations. Finally, having bought some coins from SE Asia I discovered that coins with a specific set of characters my be official Chinese, Chinese imitations, Japanese copies, Japanese export coins (Nagasaki exports), Vietnamese copies of Chinese, Vietnamese copies of Japanese, tiny Vietnamese imitations and Javanese lead and tin copies. Size, weight, material and character style all play a role in identification.

    How can all of that not be fun??

    In addition, new areas of coinage lead to new historical reading, enhancing the interest.

    SC
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 24, 2020
  15. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    Simple: I do not feel there are any coins outside my comfort zone. Many are unfamiliar, many can be "boring". However, even those I am originally not interested in, I learn more about, then I gain interest. Many folks here on CT have CHANGED many of my thoughts about coins shown, or Historical Periods.

    My GOAL: Have fun, Enjoy, Relax. My Hobby.

    I kinda value coins on this scale (I ensure that I do some homework that none are fakes.):

    - "I enjoy this Historical Period (there are several I enjoy)."
    - "Cool", I get it.
    - "Dunno", Ok, I will go ahead and get it.
    - "Dunno", Don't know too much about it, so I will shelve the thought until later or after more research.
    - "Wow, never seen that before", Do I get it? Do I do more research?


    I only have ONE from this area, but it was from a dig, and it is COOL. Learning more of its History. I think it is purdy far from Roman Republican, Makedon, etc. which I enjoy:

    upload_2020-12-24_9-58-58.png
    Sri Lanka, 1st C BCE, PB Lead 1/8th unit, Lakshmi excavated in Anuradhapura RARE
     
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  16. AncientJoe

    AncientJoe Well-Known Member

    This is my answer as well, including the car apathy.
     
  17. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    Personally, I have not seen that as an objection. I have perhaps 3 or 4 thousand World Coins that I have picked up / collected from my travels during my career. Many (most) have NON-Latin based script. Some are purdy scarce, many are common: All are fun (Grandkids have a lot of them.) For ancients, I am fascinated with the various scripts and languages expressed on the Coins: No one reads or understands the language of Rasenna (Etruria), but those are cool coins. There are various Islamic, Oscan, Kushan, Indo, Silk Road, etc. coins that have script that I have no clue, but are incredible coins to have...

    upload_2020-12-24_10-18-10.png
    Campania CAPUA AE 14-5mm 216-211 Hera Oscan Grain ear Hannibal capital Italia SNG Fr 517 SNG ANS 219 HN Italy 500 EE Clain Stefanelli


    upload_2020-12-24_10-19-30.png
    India Indo-Scythian King Azes I 57-30BCE AR Drachm
     
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  18. BenSi

    BenSi Well-Known Member

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  19. Victor_Clark

    Victor_Clark all my best friends are dead Romans Dealer

    You would have to be a Constantine nerd to know about many of those types! :D

    A few are painfully rare, while others are merely plain old rare, but many are easy enough to find with a bit of patience.
     
  20. Mr.Q

    Mr.Q Well-Known Member

    All ancients are out of my comfort zone but I certainly enjoy viewing and reading the biography, very educational. Thanks to all CT Members and Happy and safe holidays.
     
  21. Curtisimo

    Curtisimo the Great(ish)

    I will have to disagree with you on this point my friend. Let me take the opportunity to try and change your mind. There are some late Roman coins that are every bit as fascinating as anything struck pre-Constantine. Here are a few examples;

    2FDAD10C-1584-429E-8256-DF04B549389B.jpeg
    Roman Empire
    Julian II (AD 360-363)
    AE1, Antioch mint, struck ca. AD 361-363
    Dia.: 28 mm
    Wt.: 8.7 g
    Obv.: D N FL CL IVLI-ANVS P F AVG: Diademed, cuirassed bust right.
    Rev.: SECVRITAS REI PVB; Bull, head facing, standing right. Two starts above
    Ref.: RIC VIII 216, pg 532
    Ex Frank S. Robinson Collection, Purchased from David Micheals (Palladium) in the 1990s, ex FSR Auction 107 lot 389 (Jan. 2019), ex FSR Jan. 2010 sale.


    This is a coin type that was mentioned directly by the emperor himself and has many different interesting interpretations. I encourage you to read my write up about it here: Julian: The Beard and the Bull


    598431B3-0DF1-488C-BC91-69CF988B696D.jpeg
    Roman Empire
    Maximinus Daia (AD 308 - 313)
    AE Follis, Antioch mint, struck ca. AD 313
    Dia.: 20.5 mm
    Wt.: 3.9 g
    Obv.: IMP C GAL VAL MAXIMINVS P F AVG; Laureate bust right
    Rev.: HERCVLI VICTORI; Hercules standing right, leaning on lions skin and club
    Ref.: RIC VI 170b, Scarce
    Ex FSR, lot 370 (Jul. 2018)


    This late Roman coin shows a masterpiece of Greek art on the reverse. Read my write up here: A Greek Artistic Masterpiece on Roman Coins



    8D0BF55D-4D4F-41A6-A323-F33706508A34.jpeg
    This coin recently went to live with @Ryro but I couldn’t resist including it because it is fascinating.

    What’s happening on this reverse type? Is Constans leading the barbarian out of the hut in order to introduce him to Roman civilization like a fatherly figure? Is the emperor taking a barbarian child as a hostage and wanted to brag about this tough stance policy to the Roman people? I don’t know but it is an interesting type and very visually appealing.

    .............................

    I would say that Arabic language coins fall out of my comfort zone but I still find them interesting. One of these days I’ll will take the time necessary to learn enough about them to appreciate them better.

    ............................

    As to Chinese coinage, I’ve always liked the money that is not the traditional round coin shape such as the spades, knives and cowry shells. These are visually interesting by virtue of their shape and are historically interesting as they convey in as clear a manner as possible the shift from the barter of certain objects (such as shells and knives etc.) into a true arbitrary medium of exchange. Pretty cool if you ask me.
    3798B76E-F2E7-4876-B57D-914100F27FB3.jpeg
     
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