Coin Doctoring

Howdy peeps,

One of the problems buying on Ebay is you don't know if the coin has been doctored, unless the seller discloses it and rarely will a seller disclose that. I figured you would like to see actual cases where a seller has purchased a coin, doctored it, then relisted it to sell at a profit.

Our example today is a highly sought after 1916-D Mercury Dime and the first auction listed is when it originally sold on Ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370109555235

As is clearly evident by the ANACS description, the coin is scratched and has F-12 details, but look at the coin after it's been doctored:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=110349765305

Notice how the bands on the torch have suddenly appeared and how the scratches on the obverse are barely noticable? Furhtermore, all one has to do is compare the original coin close-up shot to the close-up shot provided by the coin doctor, to see all scratches match up and compare the feedback numbers of the buyer of the original coin, to the feedback number of the current seller, to know the 2 coins are the same coin. :goof:

This is how quite a few Ebay sellers make money and this seller has also been known to sell counterfeit 1914-D Lincolns and when caught, and returned, they relisted it. :whistle: Yet Ebay is making so much money off this seller they will turn a blind eye to the fraud.

Feel free to post any coin doctors you know of, with before and after pics, to help educate others on what to watch out for. :thumb:

Ribbit

Ps: The seller of the doctored coin, has been discussed here before so they are well known by many of us.

 

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Wow that is messed up.

 

Your Mom will enjoy this one.

Ribbit

Ps: How's your homework coming along? :whistle:

 

Since this Seller bought the coin off of eBay in a holder, cracked it out and whizzed it to remove the damage but lost $75 on the coin not including the shipping, then maybe this Seller will get the message! I am sure that he or she was hoping for a much better outcome and this is the readon that you posted the information. Thanks!


Frank

 

The current auction doesn't end for 2 more days so the seller will make money, considering the "new" condition of the coin, as represented, books for over 4G. If the auction completes, you will see how profitable it is to doctor coins and have no morals. :whistle:

Ribbit

 

well the auction has made me really sad

for one immoral dealer
two there is only one coin that i have ever lost in my life
three there is only one coin that was over 4k that i found in a roll when not searching
that coin happens to be 1916 D i wish i didnt know it was that expensive or that i could find the envelope i stashed that stupid coin in.

 

Yep.

We also see how foolish it is to buy expensive raw coins, especially on E-bay.

This is "Thread of the Year" material. :high5:

 

Too bad I don't have the money to e-mail the guy "Hey, I'm willing to give you $XXXX to end the auction now and send it off to ANACS to be authenticated." That would entice some laughs.

 

I don't know if anyone remembers, but hat 14-D I bought ~a year ago and you figured out it was counterfeit (as well as being cleaned). I returned it and guess who bought it. If you guessed seriouscoins, you would be correct. Despite knowing that it was counterfeit, he kept it.

 

I just don't understand ebay. This should be easy enough for them to verify just given the info Toad has posted here, but it's a crapshoot as to whether or not they'll pull it. They must make enough off of the scammers to overlook things like repeatedly selling counterfeits, coins that are intentionally misattributed as more expensive varieties to be sold and coin doctoring to take place because they don't seem to do much about it. The coin being doctored isn't the only thing that's wrong with this seller. Check out the feedback that he's left for people that have bought from him. His buyers have stated that he has a nasty little habit of using feedback for extortion. Check out what he said about a buyer that had the misfortune of buying a fake from him. BTW the buyer has 100% feedback with a total of 117 feedbacks.

• - Posted on 2/12/09 @ 1742 by a buyer with a feedback rating of (117) "Gave me full refund for counterfeit 14D cent and now it appears to be relisted".
• Seriouscoins posted this in response to the feedback from above on the same day 2/12/09 @ 18:45):
• "SLANDEROUS ACCUSATIONS!!! HORRIBLE PERSON!!! BLOCK THEM!!!!"

I think this one is the worst of all, it's feedback posted by seriouscoins for the buyer on 2/12/09 @ 1816 (so much for sellers no longer being able to leave negative or neutral feedback for buyers):
+"NEGATIVE! NEGATIVE! NEGATIVE! NO GOOD PR*CK!!!!!" WHAT??? Can he say that???

:headbang: I guess I'm becoming desensitized with ebay allowing all the fakes to be sold and scams like this one, but I am truly shocked that they allow feedback like this to be posted. It seems common on ebay that when the scammer is busted they try to place blame on the buyer.

Most of you are aware that this whole coin collecting thing is new to me, but buying coins isn't new. I've been buying for 7 years for Garrett's collection. Dishonest sellers are nothing new. Let's face it, some people are less than honorable, but this is ebay's playground and they should make the rules and then make everybody play by them. Why don't they take some initiative, step up to the plate and have their coin sellers adhere to ANA standard practices? They don't have to go through the trouble of making new rules, they could adopt rules that it seems are pretty much universally accepted by ANA members and dealers. Wouldn't that resolve the majority of the problems that people (myself included) seem to be continuously battling with ebay over?

hya: Proud to say we bought 8 coins this week and none were from ebay. :high5: Maybe they'll listen up if enough people get fed up and it affects their bottom line. I'm not saying we won't buy from ebay, but after what we went through they're no longer my first or second choice when shopping for coins.

:whistle: Sorry if I rambled, it's late and my knee is killing me and I can't sleep.

 

nice post keeps things in perspective

 

Whoa whoa whoa , slow down gang. I know this seller and am not going anywhere on this but to say it is not the same coin as the ANACS coin..

As for anything in the past, I am not sure, but I have had many deals with this guy on the side, never an issue, he has bought some high dollar stuff from me.

 

thats good to hear

 

H.T, Thank you for pointing out these issues to us. You are absolutely right about the prevalence of coin doctoring. Look at this auction listing for example where the seller actually informs propective bidders that the coin on offer can be improved via the "right treatment"......(at least he did not do it himself).

The practice of coin doctoring is also prevalent in Europe, specially when it comes to ancient bronze or orichalcum coins (Asse, Dupondii, Sestertii). In Germany they refer to the treatment as "taking the coin to the hairdresser". These "hairdressers" will usually re-engrave and touch up the hair on the busts of the emperor/empress to give the impression of a higher state of preservation. In some cases it is easy to spot because it is done crudely. In other cases the re-engraving is masterful, and very difficult to spot (don't ask me how i know this..........)

Eduard


http://cgi.ebay.com/1794-Large-Cent...286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66:2|65:13|39:1|240:1308

 

how do u know this :goofer:

 

I recently posted a VF 16-D merc on the open forum, I can swear this is the coin I sold to a buyer in NY, who may have eventually gotten it over to serious. It does look a tad cleaner, but that could be the pics.

 

so the coin sold for 4 fig in the open forum?. i need to open a shop there. hey Peter how about a spock shop to wealth

 

Hi Toad!
Just signed on here, I hope I don't bore you good folks to death. The 1914-D cent guy from eBay out to put these counterfeit coin sellers in the bread line.

 

So the bottom line is... it's not the same coin, correct?

 

The '16-D dime on eBay is the same coin retooled. There's numerous discussion about it on eBay's coin forum.