11990 nickel possibly a improperly Annealed planchet a black beauty?

Actually, the mechanism you describe is a myth. It does not correspond to the physical evidence.

1. There has been no obvious source of copper dust since copper-alloy cent planchets were abandoned in 1982. The zinkers are not annealed.

2. Few improperly annealed nickels are overweight. They tend to be normal weight or underweight. Sometimes seriously underweight.

3. It's not just the copper that flakes off. Sometimes the nickel-colored metal flakes off. Sometimes you have thick, composite nickel and copper layers flaking off.

It's not clear why these coins develop a layer of copper. Sintering is not the answer. Perhaps copper atoms migrate to the surface. Perhaps nickel atoms migrate to the interior, leaving copper at the surface. Perhaps nickel atoms are liberated, leaving the copper fraction behind. Perhaps copper atoms are liberated, only to be re-deposited. Nobody really knows the physical/chemical basis for these rather common errors.

 

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I'm not getting into that mire again

Thanks,
Bill

 

OK, send it in and we will all put some cash into a pot, how's that?

 

So Mike what you are saying about the nickel flaking off I was correct. The rim and the surface of my nickel indicates that as I said in the post on the rim and on the fields.

I have stated many times and showed examples of a dug up coin and a improperly annealed planchet and there is a big comparrison between the two examples as i explained in detail.

I know the coin is not a black beauty that was established ,but I still think my coin is a improperly annealed planchet.


I know there;s no market for these errors there not in demand and there is not much interest in these partcular types so it don;t really matter to me if it;s authentic or not. I just wanted to get feed back on the specimen and as i stated before I took the coin to a error dealer which said it;s a improperly annealed planchet in hand end of story

Alien ZEC thank you for the feedback Mike

 

Not jazz ZEC

NICKEL ALLOY FLAKJING OFF THE RIM A CLEAR INDICATION

alien zec form the planet Zectas

 

here we go again...

get it graded if that's what you think it is... you have had more then one person offer to PAY for it...

put up or shut up..

 

Well i will send it in when i get the chance and don't tell me to shut up becausei I won't put up with that ieuj snhy sokne sikjns mmcueh phu cha kapalou could you decipher what i said to you I'm glad i could cover it up

Alien ZEC

 

No, that's not what I said, Jazzcoins. Your coin is a dirty, corroded piece of junk.

 

There is no difference between pre- and post-1982 examples. The two traditional theories amount to no more than wishful thinking, perhaps abetted by equally wishful speculation by mint employees. I was taken in by both the "sintered plating" and "copper wash" scenarios the first few years I was in the hobby. But my doubts grew as I studied the phenomenon in more depth. The physical evidence is simply not compatible with either traditional scenario.

It's clear from reliable, first-hand eyewitness testimony that the abnormal planchets emerge this way from the annealing drum. However, even this eyewitness couldn't say why the planchets were discolored or how the copper layer forms.

A metallurgist I consulted couldn't give me an answer, either. He said the packing of the metal atoms was too tight for any migration to occur.

So the process remains a mystery.

 

Joe,
One last time. What is flaking off your coin is the additional material that formed as the coin was corroding in the ground. You really have to understand when it is time to let go of a bad identification of a coin , based on your lack of understanding of the minting process.

It is fortunate that in these threads, folks that do know what they are talking about are able to identify the coins properly and then teach about the processes involved with minting a coin. We can use the knowledge and experience that we have to rule something in or rule something out just the way we explained what this coin was. Were it not for the educational opportunities provided, this thread is a waste after the point where the first person said that the coin was buried. I would like to thank Mike D. for adding the educational materials to this thread.

Joe, the more you argue with the people that know what they are looking at, the less people will take anything you say seriously.

I'm not debating this just stating the facts as I see them.

Thanks,
Bill

 

I will argue this point again i said i took the coin to a reputable dealer years ago he saw the coin in hand and said that it was a improperly annealed planchet and if you can;t distinguish copper alloy on the rim I don;t know what to tell YA


Now if you look at the rim of the coin which you don;t observe nothing long enough you go thru the threads llike you are in a hurry and make some wrong statments as usual you could see copper on the rim and i will not repeat myself again you think what you think and the others too and i'm very serious what i'm saying ;

Well let me hear your theory on how these are produced at the mint before you start acting up with me again.which you said you wouldn't come on i want to hear your theory

I want you to know something if this was a dug up coin the substance on the coin ,would have somewhat been cleaned off when i put it in oliver oil and nothing like that happened. I cleaned alot of corroded coins and the oliver oil happend to take alot of the corrosion off the fields and the rims but nothing like that happened to this coin.So it;s not a dug up junk coin Mike and foundinrolls.


Alien ZEC

 

The coin you posted is copper and not nickel....

Copper gets eaten underground....

nickel turns brown, to black eventually.

 

We are talking about what happened in the annealing process the chemical imbalance when the coin was improperly annealed known has copper washed copper washed copper washed copper washed 25 percent nickle 75 percent copper enough for me,Still fighting me okyou won't give up i like that.good for my electrons to rejuvenateAnd the coin is not black it;s greyish color charcoal like the slabbed coins

Alien ZEC

 

Annealing doesn't use a high enough temperature to cause one of the metals to melt and thus move around a lot in the alloy. Alloys generally have a melting range (unless it's a eutetic alloy which does have a single melting point at the concentration known as the eutetic point) because each metal in the alloy melts at a different point. So, you get a liquid (A) + solid (B) once you enter the range. If you reached a temperature where one of the metals turned to liquid you could get enough movement to bring one metal to the surface. However, since annealing doesn't reach a temperature to begin the melting process...this would not happen.

 

That's why it's such a puzzling phenomenon. The sintering scenario would perhaps be acceptable if it wasn't for the numerous underweight specimens with heavy copper layers. I've never personally examined a specimen that was overweight, even with a heavy copper layer. And again, the absence of any obvious source of copper dust since 1982 renders the sintering scenario highly questionable.

 

So what you are saying the annealing process is not how these improperly annealed planchets are produced at the mint .I would like your annalyization how you think these coins become discolored and have a range of colors RED, greyish chacoa,l brown ,copper, and black.

i would have to think the temperture is high enough for these to change in there color what is the explaination to these mystery coins then .


You sound like you know what your talking about better then someone I know. please discribe in detail how you think these are made.This is directed to CANERO DND

Thank Alien ZEC

 

You compared your coin to a dug up cent which corrodes much different than a dug nickle that's apples to oranges. Ice

 

I don't know how they are made. All I know is what annealing is and what it does to metals. Annealing does not melt the alloy. It simply provides enough energy for the atoms in the metal to rearrange their crystalline structure slightly and reduce metal strain. This allows the metal to undergo more force before it fractures. Even though atoms move, the alloy doesn't separate into it's base metals when annealed. The only way for that could happen is if one of the metals in the alloy melted (turned to liquid). Like I said, alloys don't typically have a melting point...rather a "melting range." Again, annealing doesn't melt the metal which means the different metals within the alloy won't separate. I don't know the specific cause for the color change in an improperly annealed planchet. The reason I understand annealing is because it is used when making metal restorations in dentistry.