Is ICG really as bad as many people say?

Insider, Big Picture: Have you and your colleagues at ICG or contacts outside ICG disgussed the implications of the CU deal ?

Do you guys see any secular trend in terms of coins and/or other colletibles ? Do you sense a tailwind from stay-at-home ?

Any thoughts ?

 

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I disagree with your disagreement !

Grading coins isn't like grading a midterm exam, where there's a correct answer for every question. Grading is inherently subjective.

While I would grant you that quality graders (and you appear to have a good reputation, kudos) might vary on certain coins within a 1 grade increment, occasionally 2 grades (from AU-50 to MS70).....on some of the more popular coins you are going to be off.

I only track Morgans and Saints among classic coins, I can just imagine the debates on Franklins, Barbers, SLQ's, etc.

 

The real problems come when they try to grade coins struck on a screw press from handmade dies.

 

I need to tune up my sarcasm detector - and a delete feature would be nice too.

 

Or you can just buy a DeLorean...get it up to 88 MPH......and.....

 

Sorry, can't prove it now as this was years ago, and I didn't buy any. Call it BS if you'd like. I'm okay with it.

 

I will call it BS then.

 

This would be cool to see in ms. That die is WORN OUT. I’ve never seen denticles and metal flow lines like that in anything that was closed collar. I’m used to it in bust coinage but not in a barber. Very cool

 

I believe your hypothesis is impossible unless the display owner had a preference for ICG, or the owner had a preference for buying the coin and had extreme luck in a unique selection.

ICG, as I've shown several times in this venue, can be seen to have better grading for the same type/date/grade coin of/from all 4 eBay choice graders. But, the condition would be seldom, as generally, the other 3 TPG would normally have graded more coins of the chosen type/date/grade.

Value can be found for virtually all of the volume TPG (even the unmentionable original slabber), if you collect the coin rather than just the slab .

JMHO

 

I didn't realize my comment was in any way negative. I was confirming that there are basement slabbers (like SGS) which will put MS 70 on every coin. Those should in no way be associated with grading companies like ICG (or even PCI/SEGS-both of which are worse than ICG but better than self slabbers...PCI was good at one time too but the last few eras saw some poor ownership groups). I then confirmed that ICG would never put a VF coin in an MS 65 holder (like someone claimed). I added a joke that the only thing you might see is a 65 coin in a VF holder if Insider wanted to play a joke on someone and become a super conservative technical grader.

Edit: and I believe this was my first comment in this thread (besides originally linking to their website back when the thread started). I haven't made any negative comments about ICG and have no issue buying or recommending someone to look at ICG graded items.

 

Yes, I totally misunderstood your comment, lol, my fault and my apologies!

 

No worries.

 

Didn’t @Insider work with PCI back in the era when they were reputable?

 

Yes he did....he has mentioned that dealers would even come up to him and brag how conservative PCI red (details) holders were since they were able to crack quite a few and get the major services to straight grade those coins.

 

GoldFinger1969, posted: "I disagree with your disagreement !

Grading coins isn't like grading a midterm exam, where there's a correct answer for every question. Grading is inherently subjective."

I agree. However, perhaps the reason you disagree is because you missed this one little word: "I have always contended that coins have a correct, strict, and easily determined technical grade as far as their condition of preservation from the time they left the dies."

 

Purely technical grading is still subjective especially in higher grades but everyone is entitled to their own beliefs.

 

baseball21, posted: "Purely technical grading is still subjective especially in higher grades but everyone is entitled to their own beliefs."

@baseball21,

Before I post a because it appears you have posted misinformation about something you know absolutely NOTHING ABOUT...

Please tell the members exactly what you think technical grading is. In the past, I have posted on several forums several times who devised that system, why it was needed, and how it was applied.

 

Lol that's funny.

Been doing a lot of really bad look posts for someone whose supposed to be the forum monitor for a company.

There are subjective aspects to technical grading and it's been explained before but go on

 

As a retired college professor in the hard sciences, I can tell you that exams often have questions that do not have a single correct answer. Even if the instructor thinks there is only one correct answer, he/she is wrong from time to time.

There is subjectivity in ALL forms of grading.

 

While true, technical grading with clear and published standards will have far less inherent subjectivity than market grading with no published standards and or standards that are not clear and vary from company to company.