Is ICG really as bad as many people say?

The PCGS Registry doesn’t use points, they just use average grade. Is their registry also a gimmick?

The use of points allows NGC to weight the coins based on rarity. At PCGS, having a high grade key date doesn’t help you very much. I’m saying the point system is designed to trick collectors, it’s designed to address a shortfall of their competitors registry system.

 

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I use the NGC registry as a great way to have an off site inventory of my slabbed (PCGS and NGC) coins. I'll never have a top set since I can't afford the top pop coins. But, I can use the registry as a template to build sets.

 

Skip, the word gimmick carries a negative connotation. As long as you use that word to describe the registries, people will continue to think you view the registries in a negative light.

 

While I agree with your overall point that grades are not fixed, I don’t know how much the graders mood really factors into the equation.

I have always contended that coins don’t have a correct grade, they have a correct grade range, and often times that grade range can span a half point. So let’s say a coin has a grade range of MS64.8 to MS65.3. We’ve all seen coins where we were stuck about whether the coin was a PQ 64 or a low end GEM. My contention that the same coin can be graded twice, receive different grades, and both grades be correct. The decision to call the coin 64 or 65 will usually come down to the grading philosophy of the grader and the attributes of the coin. Let’s say the coin in question had MS64 surfaces but premium gem luster and strike with attractive (not monster) toning. The graders who hold surface preservation paramount would likely grade the coin MS64 or MS64+ whereas the holistic graders who judge more based on overall appearance would likely grade the coin MS65.

That isn’t to say that your “bad day” scenario doesn’t happen, I just think that the inherent subjectivity in grading is what causes coins to change grade over time.

 

Just my humble opinion, but I used to see solid VF-30s graded ICG MS-65, so I would never buy an ICG graded coin. Not ever. Maybe they have gotten better, but my experiences seeing ICG grossly mis-graded coins left a very bad taste.

 

I believe that over time a grader would probably look at the same coin differently and grade it differently as a result. Experience plays a big role as it does in just about every other thing in life. That's just human nature. The first MS64 coin the grader looked at probably looks different than an MS64 coin 20 years later. Experience provides the grader with a much broader picture of what to look for and how a coin stacks up to countless others he/she has handled.

 

AuldFartte, posted: "Just my humble opinion, but I used to see solid VF-30s graded ICG MS-65, so I would never buy an ICG graded coin. Not ever. Maybe they have gotten better, but my experiences seeing ICG grossly mis-graded coins left a very bad taste.

ROTFL! This is an example of why all coin forums should have an auto "Block BS" filter. AF, IMHO, you may either need to see an eye doctor, take a beginners grading course, or learn what a flat strike looks like.

I've been ranting against over graded coins for over fifty years and I HAVE NEVER EVER SEEN A VF COIN GRADED MS AND DON'T EXPECT TO EVER SEE ONE - even one slabbed by an ignorant crook!

 

Maybe it was a 1922 No D cent...they all look VF. Lol.

 

Lehigh96, posted: "I have always contended that coins don’t have a correct grade, they have a correct grade range, and often times that grade range can span a half point."

I disagree. I have always contended that coins have a correct, strict, and easily determined technical grade as far as their condition of preservation from the time they left the dies. The only reason they do not is due to all the variables introduced by commercial grading.

I probably should say Usually Easy for some coin types. I'm grading a large number of circulated Barber half dollars from all the mints ranging in grade from VG-10 to VF-25. It is no fun. Take a look at the PCGS Photograde Online images. Then add branch mint strike to the equation.

I saw a worn die I've never seen before. What I would not give to have one of these 1907-O coins in MS!

 

That is a quite old die. It would be cool to see an MS one like that.

 

This thread is ludicrous, as it is dominated by one person, who has a very specific agenda. I thought commercial advertising was verboten on the message board threads, except for the “buy, sell, trade” board. One person is trying to vindicate his company in which he has a vested interest. Lots of misinformation being promulgated, with colorfully adorned text galore.

 

I once caught an anecdote THIIIIIIISSSSS BIIIIIG!

 

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

 

You beat me to it. Likely a wrong label or too much booze.

 

Next you'll be touting the title of "fanboy". If you're going to go that far, better get some good pointers from the pros here first to make sure you do it right.

Then why does IGC offer/need Initial Release Designation? IMHO, that one is one of the worst. I really hope you had nothing to do with that one...

That word can be looked at in either light. There are a number of great gimmicks that have come and gone, some of which had been quite amusing and accomplished what a gimmick is meant to accomplish: attract attention or increase appeal.

Seriously? You have never seen one even in an SGS slab? And I thought you had been around the block at least a few times! Why, I bet AuldFarte is right and you all got into the kool-aid one night and crossed over a bunch of SGS VFs in their stock MS-70 Abon slabs from eBay back in the day...

 

Morgandude11, posted: "This thread is ludicrous, as it is dominated by one person, who has a very specific agenda. [Yes, my agenda is to comment on pure NONSENSE as this particular post attempting to get me to cross the line. I have explained I work for ICG. I have agreed with the reasons ICG will never be #1 or #2. Now, what is really ludicrous to me besides your opinion here is that NOT ONE EMPLOYEE of any TPGS is allowed to comment about their TPGS? I wonder why?] I thought commercial advertising was verboten on the message board threads, except for the “buy, sell, trade” board. [I'm NOT advertising anything. Read the thread title. I don't need to grub around looking for new customers as they decide with their checks who to use.] One person is trying to vindicate his company [ Did you read the thread title yet?] in which he has a vested interest. [Already posted that long ago. FYI nothing on this web site is going to hurt our bottom line. Members already have their favorite TPGS.] Lots of misinformation being promulgated, with colorfully adorned text galore."

When I read this discussion, I find that most of us agree on the important points stated about each TPGS! As you are a very knowledgeable and important member here, I'm going to ask you the same thing I've asked of every member on CT blowing smoke up the rear end of our "computers." Please back up your post with examples we can discuss. Please point out the misinformation I've personally posted not the misinformation posted by others here. Hopefully, you will be a better poster than those that fly by, poop on a discussion and leave. I'll be waiting...

Stay Safe & don't stomp the Rattlesnake

 

WARNING. THIS POST CONTAINS SOME OBVIOUS ADVERTIZING.

NPCoin, asked: "Then why does IGC offer/need Initial Release Designation? IMHO, that one is one of the worst. I really hope you had nothing to do with that one..."

Initial Release, First Strike, etc. is just another great idea (Gimmick) to separate folks from their money. We were late to the party. We copied the top two services on that one. It was good business. We were threatened with a lawsuit by one TPGS if we did not change the designation we used at first.
In the same way, the top services copied ICG and started to slab "problem" coins! So you see, ICG got all of you something for your money besides a body bag - thank us very much.

@Lehigh96 Posted: "That word can be looked at in either light. There are a number of great gimmicks that have come and gone, some of which had been quite amusing and accomplished what a gimmick is meant to accomplish: attract attention or increase appeal."

Thanks!

To answer this...."Seriously? You have never seen one even in an SGS slab? And I thought you had been around the block at least a few times! Why, I bet AuldFarte is right and you all got into the kool-aid one night and crossed over a bunch of SGS VFs in their stock MS-70 Abon slabs from eBay back in the day..."

Nope, not even for SEGS. Let's see some extremely over graded coins in a SEGS, ANACS, or ICG slab. There may still be a few in the gold label PCI slabs but not that extreme. Come on folk. Typing behind an icon without proof is lame.

 

Yes there are "basement slabs" where each coin is graded MS or even MS 70. SGS is one of those self slabbers (one person putting their own coins into holders and assigning grades). SGS is not SEGS, PCI, or ICG. The latest generations of PCI have been bad and SEGS can be questionable too. With ICG you will definitely not see a VF coin in an MS 65 holder (unless @Insider decides to play a joke on someone, but then I'd imagine he would put your MS 65 into a VF holder! ).

 

What's up with you and ICG? Did they do you wrong? It seems like they must have given your very angry comments, can you please elaborate?

 

I thought ddddd was just being sarcastic. He was praising their grading techniques, in a back-handed kind of way.