Is ICG really as bad as many people say?

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by TylerH, Oct 10, 2018.

  1. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    I'm glad to see you :bookworm: back into this discussion.

    baseball21, posted: "Will heritage, stacks or GC submit to such services? I know form their webpage GC will to ANACS for the second tier but that’s it. The market has spoken unless you can show numbers otherwise.
    "


    Well, you got me there - nice :grumpy: trick. As you SHOULD :smuggrin: know NONE of the TPGS releases numbers :stop: on anything except population and total coins slabbed. So, no numbers. :(

    As I wrote, I cannot speak for ANACS but there are REASONS I know of (the ball of dirt is only one) for the situation you write about. I don't know what the GC policy is toward ICG but we may get some coins from GC so they must auction them. Of course, if that were the case, Anything they might send us goes out the same day or the next so it will not hold up their auction. We try to give all our submitters the fastest turnaround in the business at the cheapest price.

    "There’s plenty of uses for the lower tier tpgs especially on cheaper coins and ancients and plenty of pie to go around. It’s silly though to suggest the gap is from cac or that cac could turn the market on its head and elevate them and I’ll leave it at
    that."

    Well, we do know this for sure, a "bean" has seriously affected the coins in the TPGS slabs you recommend with good rea$on$.
    Except for you :cigar:, we'll never know what the effect on the market would be if the other two MAGOR TPGS were given the same treatment. :D

    PS I can reveal this part of that "
    Ball" I suggested might exist...
    While the top two services were still sending out "bodybags," AFAIK, ICG was slabbing all the "Problem" coins for some auctions. :jawdrop:;)


     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2020
    MIGuy and wxcoin like this.
  2. Avatar

    Guest User Guest



    to hide this ad.
  3. Derek2200

    Derek2200 Well-Known Member

    No not at all. TPG politics is basically complex but the big gun submitters to PCGS and NGC tout the services they submit to lol.
     
    MIGuy likes this.
  4. Lehigh96

    Lehigh96 Toning Enthusiast

    You are completely missing my point. I'm sure John Roberts is a fantastic grader as is Mark Yaffe, and yes, they both probably have excellent numismatic resumes. My point was that the President of a grading company needs to have both a numismatic resume and marketable celebrity appeal. He/she needs to be an excellent public speaker and in addition to guiding the company in the right direction, the person also needs to be able to promote the company publicly and be a visible face of the company to all collectors.

    I included David Hall because he is what the others should aspire to achieve. Everyone knew who he was, what he looked like, heck, we even knew his nickname. Under that same philosophy, Brett Charville is not shy and most people in the numismatic community know who he is, even if they think his numismatic resume is light, like I do.

    You can't complain that the reason PCGS and NGC are #1 & #2 is because they have better marketing, and then tell me that the second tier companies don't even make an attempt to market their own companies by putting up a public face.

    So when I ask you, who the superstar at ICG or ANACS is, what I mean is this: who is their President/CEO and why don't I already know who they are?
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2020
    Tater and Stevearino like this.
  5. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    Wow, what a long discussion. I'm taking a break from writing an article and decided to go back to read the beginning of this thread that I have been posting on this week. I had no idea it was started THREE YEARS AGO yet as far as I have read, it could have been written YESTERDAY as nothing stated has changed.

    Then I came to a @baseball21 question about this coin in a slab:

    [​IMG]

    baseball21 did not think this coin was overgraded and asked: Are you a 1700s gold expert now?

    In MHO. you don't need to be an expert on 18th Century coins to grade THE OBVERSE of this coin. True, coins have two sides and an edge but very often the amount of detail remaining on each side is different for various reasons not important here.

    So w/o taking a swipe at this grading service, try this two-part educational quiz:

    1. What grade did ICG assign to this coin. ;)

    2. What is YOUR personal grade and most importantly why did you assign the grade you did!
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2020
  6. wxcoin

    wxcoin Getting no respect since I was a baby

    Assuming the deep gash didn't give it a details grade, with the flatness of the high points I'd go 35-40.
     
  7. KSorbo

    KSorbo Well-Known Member

    EF details damaged would be my grade, not sure what ICG would have graded it. The gouge in the left field kills it for me.
     
  8. Stevearino

    Stevearino Well-Known Member

    I think ICG gave it a "VF Details" grade. Can't imagine the gouges were allowed to pass, even being "old gold."

    Steve

    PS. Was the authenticity ever challenged?
     
  9. CamaroDMD

    CamaroDMD [Insert Clever Title] Supporter

    Long time reader of this thread...first time poster.

    I honestly don’t think that gouge is that huge and I think the coin will straight grade. I’m by no means knowledgeable about 18th century gold but based in this photo alone it looks to have some decent wear. I’d put it in the upper VF range. I’m gonna say VF35.

    The reason I say that is it “feels” like too much wear for EF but not by a large margin.

    I’m assuming it’s authentic but I have no knowledge of this series.
     
  10. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    That would be surprising considering they haven't had an ICG option on their submission form for years and that the ICG coins they do auction must start at $1 dollar at least that's what I was told in the past when inquiring about it. Sure if you have a substantial enough submission I'm sure you could get an exception, but I am talking for the standard cosigner.
     
  11. ed wood 654

    ed wood 654 Grader & Entrepreneur /Aviation Executive

    I am thinking about making an offer to buy ICG and put together a team to turn it into a world class company
     
  12. longshot

    longshot Enthusiast Supporter

    Long time no see. Where ya been?
     
  13. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    :D You can't afford it. Throw in four more four-engine jets, a very large yacht, a residence on Cliff Walk in Newport, and a dozen very exotic cars and then give the owner a call. BTW, how is your building coming along?

    baseball21, posted: "That would be surprising considering they haven't had an ICG option on their submission form for years and that the ICG coins they do auction must start at $1 dollar at least that's what I was told in the past when inquiring about it. Sure if you have a substantial enough submission I'm sure you could get an exception, but I am talking for the standard cosigner.

    You know more about GC than I :bucktooth: do so you must be correct.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2020
    wxcoin, MIGuy and Stevearino like this.
  14. Pickin and Grinin

    Pickin and Grinin Well-Known Member

    I about fell out of my Chair.
    Please tell us your opinion on the 1798 gold piece post #184.
     
    Mainebill, Beefer518 and NSP like this.
  15. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    Unfair question! Don't expect a reply. :p
     
    NSP and Pickin and Grinin like this.
  16. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    You're free to contradict it if you don't think they're being honest. I don't have any reason to believe they aren't being straight forward about it
     
  17. micbraun

    micbraun coindiccted

    D0F99846-6DE5-488F-81C1-1C79A60546FA.jpeg
     
  18. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    baseball21, posted: "You're free to contradict it if you don't think they're being honest. I don't have any reason to believe they aren't being straight forward about it."

    Did you understand my post? I wrote that You know more about GC than I :bucktooth: do so you must be correct. How could you think I questioned your post or don't believe you?

    Perhaps I should have written that I know very little about GC. I auctioned some raw Morgan VAM's a few years ago but I couldn't tell you their policy on anything as I never go to their auctions.
     
  19. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    Let's PLEASE get this question answered:

    WHAT DID ICG GRADE THIS COIN!

    [​IMG]

    There have been several recent posts in this old thread yet Only THREE responses so far. Three detail grades. What about the rest of you?

    So far, VF is the lowest guess and XF-40 the highest. Does anyone think this coin should straight grade? Why?
     
    Mainebill likes this.
  20. longshot

    longshot Enthusiast Supporter

    No gold guy here, but my thoughts....original, dirty, not seeing much luster, about VF35, the cut is an issue, but just a circulation knock, gold is soft, I wouldn't blast a tpg for straight grading it.
     
  21. CamaroDMD

    CamaroDMD [Insert Clever Title] Supporter

    I didn't say details. I said straight grade VF35. I may be completely off...but it seems that all the TPGs are more forgiving to 18th century gold when it comes marks like that gouge to the left.
     
Draft saved Draft deleted

Share This Page