Experiment with Verdigone (tm) on copper cents

hooray i have a few coins that need help. biox faile dont hose so lets see :whistle:

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

I've got a question. Is verdigris the stuff on Garrett's new Fugio that turned bright green in my photographs? You can relax, it's already been sent to NCS for conservation, so I won't attempt any experiments of my own.

 

if it has been sent to ncs then most prolly it was

 

Photos taken @ 3Am and 6AM, but very similar so didn't post ( also I was half asleep ), will post the 12hrs total photo after 9:30AM Pacific. No visible difference in UNCs.

Jim

 

thats dedication for u

 

12 hrs

here is the photo from the 12 hr test.



and the solutions. It might not show well, but the Verdigone has a slight bluish tint. Not ready for a change in solution.




Another photo in 12hrs.
Jim

 

What I see in the photo above is similar to what I've seen before, ie. that much of the verdigris is taken off quickly, but often there is a stubborn core of it that goes deep into the coin. Meaning that if finally removed, there will be a hole of sorts.

 

Yes, I have seen the same thing. To make the experiment appropriate, I have to pretend its a 1914-D or such for the effort. Every trial is an adventure! Pits Happens!

Jim

 

Jim,

By chance do you know exactly what chemicals are in Verdigone, and what chemical reaction is taking place to remove the verdigris or "Bronze Disease"

Is the Verdigone also reacting with the natural patina of the coin? Why isn't verdigone recommended for BU coins?

Thanks.

 

I don't know exactly what chemical(s) are involved. I could make an educated guess based on the pH, what it affects, and also the color of the end product, but it is a trade secret, and I shouldn't speculate.

It is intended to remove copper acetate and copper carbonate corrosion, and it reacts with copper oxides only weakly, so if it is not continued too long, the patina of the copper coin ( an incidentally, the so called "carbon spots") are not removed, or done so weakly.

I haven't asked, but I suspect it is because BU coins have little or no patina to protect the underlying copper, and discoloration could occur. This will be an interesting part of the experiment for me, because even though I have used it on BU cents with no "visible" effects, I have not ran a comparison pair. Now I can know for sure if there is an effect or not. One reason I used a marker to label the BU coins is that after taking end photos I can remove the marks with acetone and see if I can see a difference between the area that was under the mark compared to the area adjacent to it .

Jim

 

Jim,

Gas Chromatography shold separate the compounds in the verdigone nicely. Got a gas chromatograph handy? LOL Based on you Pic's the verdigone is performing quite nicely.

 

the guy who made this stuff oposts regularly on one of the boards and i think he doesnt really want to share whats in the chemical or else he will lose his discovery.

Desertgem,

i think a real good test for verdigone would be to send you a coin that biox has failed to remove after multiple dips and see if verdigone acts better than biox. from what i have seen so far biox acts so much faster ( even diluted) but the patina goes if you are not careful luckily some of the coins here have had layers of dust that biox removes too so the patina is saved

 

No, even if I knew I wouldn't spill Thads beans. I know he did hundreds of experiments before hitting on this and he is a nice guy.

Normally I dilute it and the time becomes longer, but I have less chance of any damage if I forget for a few days. If a coin is worth trying to conserve, it is worth taking your time as you probably won't get another chance for decades if you go too far. Post a photo of your bioxed coin. Have you ever measured the pH of the active solution?

Jim

 

Here is the 24 hr test photo. The spot appears to me to be getting less green. I have been taking the control 45s out of the distilled water and doing the same manipulation in case the movement of the coins create a rinsing action with the water.





Jim

 

thats the problme 99% of the coins hve no problem drop the biox drop in water and u r done. 1 % of the coins keepdropping the biox nothing happens. the common thread in all those coins. they are all nickel not copper nickle just nickel. i will try to get pics. my own theory is biox only works on copper, brass, silver and gold, al3 is pot luck and nickel has the worst response. no i dont have a ph measuring scale here

 

THIS is NOT part of current experiment, but is from a favor I did for a coin friend and thought spock and otherswould find it interesting as Verdigone was used here also. My friend had this in his shop for months and no one wanted even to look at it. he ask me to see if I could take the verdigris off. I told him the damage beneath would be apparent, but he said go ahead. The 2nd photo is after 10 days and 5 changes of solution. Someone bought it , even with disclaimers a couple of weeks later





Jim

 

Amazing !!

 

Hope you are feeling better jack. Hey any 1909SVDB or 1914-D with verdigris you want to sell real cheap? Just kidding!

Jim

 

Harry... A Mass Spec would even be better!!

Keep it going Jim, nice job thus far!


RickieB