Found 1916 Standing Liberty Quarter in eBay lot purchase

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by MIGuy, Nov 20, 2020.

  1. MIGuy

    MIGuy Supporter! Supporter

    Lol, that would be better! Still, this is amazing, thank you.
     
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  3. masterswimmer

    masterswimmer A Caretaker, can't take it with me

    Congrats on a bucket list find, at a buckets list price no less.

    I have no experience dating a no date coin from details. I'd love to see a good clear picture of your coin. It would surely help my raw skills with this education.
     
    Derrick Combs likes this.
  4. NSP

    NSP Well-Known Member

    While I certainly hate to be a naysayer, the third party grading services do occasionally make mistakes. Ultimately whether the coin is a 1916 or a 1917 will come down to the diagnostics on the coin itself, and not what ICG said. The strong lines on the walls is usually a telltale sign that it’s not a 1916. The rest of the diagnostics are outlined in this picture (pulled from a discussion I linked in my previous post):

    D97A5036-CFAF-4946-A88D-2F1A90309AB8.jpeg

    The other big one is the strength of the rivets on the shield. On the 1916, they are very weak and are practically nonexistent in low grades. However, on the 1917, the rivets are generally strong. I can’t quite determine one way or another based on the current image.

    The drapery fold by Liberty’s ankle, the crease in the robe/sash, and the position of the head relative to the rim seem to be more consistent with 1917. However, a better picture of the coin would be needed to be certain.

    It should go without saying that I definitely hope this is a 1916, but if it’s not, it’s probably better to find out now rather than later.
     
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  5. Derrick Combs

    Derrick Combs Well-Known Member

    I really hope you went back and thanked that seller!
     
  6. Derrick Combs

    Derrick Combs Well-Known Member

    Regardless, in that slab someone would pay nicely. Then you could add cash and buy a definite ngc or pcgs example. That's what I would do at this stage. By the time they get it back from ngc it's too late to return. Even if you got negative feedback. You didn't do anything wrong.
     
  7. tenbobbit

    tenbobbit Well-Known Member

    I think the only word that fits @Derrick Combs post is " SCHEISTER "

    Thanks for letting us know you can't be trusted :facepalm:
     
  8. potty dollar 1878

    potty dollar 1878 Well-Known Member

    what did he say wrong?
     
  9. HAB Peace 28 2.0

    HAB Peace 28 2.0 The spiders are as big as the door

    Did ICG switch back to the their old blue cases?
     
    Derrick Combs likes this.
  10. Kentucky

    Kentucky Supporter! Supporter

    The thing that struck me is that he seems to accept the fact that it is a 1917, but since it is slabbed as a 1916, he is fine with defrauding a potential buyer. I could be wrong though.
     
  11. MIGuy

    MIGuy Supporter! Supporter

    That's ludicrous and offensive, as I believe was clear from my posting, I was excited because it looked like a 1916 to me - especially as to the drape of the dress / foot and the line on the left under Liberty's right arm. I didn't have much confidence in my ability to discern these things because I've only seen 1916s online in pictures, and it seemed so implausible that I would happen upon one, when there are so many folks out there who have a real eye for these things, unlike me. I was willing to pay for ICG to take a look because of my suspicions - and it turned out I was right.

    Please don't be petty, rude and / or jealous, my intention was not to gloat, and if it came across that way I apologize, I am just excited. I think anyone would be. Posts like yours make people sorry to share their successes. I like to celebrate other people's successes in general. Again, you're welcome to put your money where your mouth is - I'd be happy to submit my entire and complete (fine, I don't have the 17/18 overstrike, lol) SLQ set to PCGS and CAC on your dime if you think it's important to assess the veracity of the ICG graders. My understanding is that the 1916 would probably be worth an extra $500 in a PCGS case with a CAC sticker. I may eventually do that myself if I have the extra money and can figure out the PCGS submission process, but for now I'm not really worried about value, I am just excited to have a complete set - 2 1/2 years in the works.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2020
  12. masterswimmer

    masterswimmer A Caretaker, can't take it with me

    Slow down there sparky! I'm going to go out on a limb and say the post by @Kentucky was referencing the post below.

    And that's supported by this post:

     
  13. MIGuy

    MIGuy Supporter! Supporter

    Oh jeez, I got offended by a response to someone else? Lol, my apologies, I'll see if I can't delete that. Thank you for pointing that out. Ugh, I can't edit it or delete it that I can see. Well I apologize Kentucky - I misunderstood what was going on. Mea culpa!
     
  14. adelaide888

    adelaide888 Active Member

    As someone who knows nothing about this subject but nevetheless finds this thread fascinating, I too wish that you -- @MIGuy -- would upload a better picture. Cause it looks to me, so far, that your coin has two of the five characteristics of a 1916 nailed, two make it look like a 1917, and one I'm undecided about. When you don't have a horse in the race, it's just fun to look.
     
  15. MIGuy

    MIGuy Supporter! Supporter

    I will try again one of these days, it would be helpful if my grown up kids were around, oldest is a talented photographer and has a fancy digital camera, but he's in Minnesota, I am just using my iPhone 6s. I thought that photo was good of the lot I took as I made adjustments for lighting, reflection etc, I spent nearly an hour to get the photo I posted. Now that I've been drooling over it and chuckling for a few more days, the head, the crease in the line of the robe to the left, the foot / drape of the robe - it all adds up. I've also been comparing to some of the type 1 dateless that I'd acquired over the past couple years, and that's where the fact that this isn't a 1917 becomes more obvious. I'm surprised that people think they know better than the expert grader at ICG who studied the thing under magnification in deciding. I think all the coins I had graded by ICG were graded very fairly - no surprises other than the wonderful news on confirming my suspicions on the 1916. I also own coins I've acquired over the years in ANACS, PCGS and NGC slabs and I'm familiar with the argument that PCGS is the best. I'm no expert, but like most folks I do tend to trust the grades from all of 4 of the major graders (short of "is it an MS this or MS that?" those are high level coins where tiny tiny things matter) and I don't think there's any serious question of their findings as to a coin type / date but I am enjoying the debate.
     
  16. mac266

    mac266 Well-Known Member

    Congratulations. I've considered putting together an SLC set (I generally do business strike date and mint mark sets from the 20th century), but the 1916 is the one holding me back.
     
    MIGuy likes this.
  17. Paddy54

    Paddy54 Well-Known Member

    I would trust a Segs slab way before any ICG slab.....one grading service I've never had any faith in at all.
     
  18. KSorbo

    KSorbo Well-Known Member

    If the coin was sold to someone and it was later proven to be a 1917, wouldn’t ICG be on the hook? Even though they aren’t a top tier grader, don’t they at least stand behind their attributions?
     
    Stevearino likes this.
  19. Mainebill

    Mainebill Bethany Danielle

    I’m just the opposite with that one.
     
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  20. MIGuy

    MIGuy Supporter! Supporter

    I have no concerns about the authenticity and yes they guarantee their certification that it is genuinely a 1916. It is fun to see the debate though. ICG is a fine grading company- top 3 or 4. Folks second guessing them on my mediocre picture skills are engaging in a fool’s errand.
     
    Kentucky likes this.
  21. mac266

    mac266 Well-Known Member

    With all the debate, why not crack it out of the slab and send it to PCGS or NGC?
     
    Paddy54 likes this.
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