Ebay sellers that ( for lack of a better word ) SUCK!

Doug,

Both sides have expenses, not just the defendant. The plaintiff needs a lawyer as well. In a frivolous case such as these, no lawyer will take the case on a percentage of award basis. They will expect to be paid regardless of the outcome of the case. The plaintiff will not want to waste money on the lawsuit anymore than the defendant.

The threat to file a lawsuit is almost always a bluff, and one that should be called most of the time. For those that have no money, there is absolutely no risk. Ever heard the phrase "you can't get blood from a stone."

PS: I want to clarify my original post. Are you saying that the casino I work for can sue the individuals that post negative reviews of the casino/hotel on websites like Tripadvisor.com. If you are saying that, then we need to hire you as our legal counsel because our legal department has told us there is absolutely nothing we (the casino) can do about it.

Paul

 

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Dateline Phoenix, Feb 2, 2009

An recent market report from a national market maker has resulted in a suit. It was commented briefly here on CT, lets see if it makes the light of day in the numismatic world

 

Personally, No I have not, I don't do anything that would get me into a lawsuit. However, I have been involved in several lawsuits at work. They were all wrongful termination suits with lawyers that are looking to make a score against a huge multi-billion dollar company. Meaning the plaintiff's lawyers will take the case without payment hoping to make a big score against a defendant with deep pockets.

We are talking about an E-Bay seller possibly suing a CT member in this conversation. The E-Bay seller has no way of knowing the financial situation of the possible defendant and he is going to have to shell out big bucks himself on a gamble that has very little chance at any payout, because the defendant has the law on his side. If it was profitable for sellers to file these lawsuits, you would see them happening.

 

If you have any such doubts about lawsuits in the numismatic realm, nearly five years ago there was a major lawsuit involving a grading company that will remain anonymous, and numerous defendants including the ANA, PMG, and several individuals. Most of the individuals were dropped eventually, but not before it cost them each several thousand dollars in legal expenses and hassle.

I would tread carefully in criticising a seller on eBay, a business, or an individual. Read up on libel sometime - the burden of proof is a lot less than it is for criminal trials, and even if you are successful in fighting off a lawsuit, have you really won if you are still out many thousands of dollars to attorneys?

 

All one needs is your name and location, then one can go to any of the online find people fast things with your info, plug it in, pay $39.95 on up, and find out all your details, mortgages, debts, judgements, assets. Yes, it can and does happen on a daily basis, welcome to the 21st century.

 

I get your point which is the same as Doug's. You two obviously don't get mine. If the last lawsuit that you can recall is over 5 years old, you have successfully proved my point. An E-bay seller suing an individual who posted and opinion of his business practices on an online chat board is frivolous and ridiculous not libelous. I am not about to get into tort reform, but until they pass a law stating that the defendants legal fees must be paid by the plaintiff in a failed lawsuit, these ridiculous lawsuits will continue. However, the chances of being sued over posting something in a chat room is remote. You have a better chance of hitting the lottery.

 

Do you know my name?

 

Who won the case?

 

Is this the same lawsuit that was referenced earlier in this thread?

 

I never said that lawsuits are trivial, just more rare than you are trying to imply.

As far as taking your word for it, I am taking the word of the in house legal counsel at my work. We had a meeting to discuss this exact issue and they informed everybody that a lawsuit would be a waste of money because we would lose. I am not saying that you won't run into some nutcase who does not understand that they can't win this type of lawsuit, what I am saying is that it is rare.

The only qualification I would make is that people should not make statements about a seller they have never dealt with. That is libelous and in that instance you are putting yourself at risk.

 

I'm sure quite a few of you have heard of SomethingAwful.com ... to me one of the most entertaining aspects of the site is where they publicly post lawsuit threats, and their responses to them. One of the site owners is a lawyer (or at least claims to be, not sure of his actual credentials) and they usually respond in a way that makes it clear they don't take the threats seriously because the law is so obviously on their side that any actual lawsuit would just get laughed out of court and no lawyer would take their case unless they were paid up front, which few people threatening lawsuits could afford anyway.

Quite often they'll post negative reviews of movies, video games, web sites, message boards etc. or just post something that someone decides offends them, and people will threaten to sue. They don't take the threats at all seriously because opinions can never be considered libelous, because they are only opinions, which are 1st amendment-protected free speech. In order to be considered libel, they have to prove they knowingly stated something that is factually untrue with the effect and intent of harming the complaintant's reputation.

Even if you make a factual claim that harms the complaintant's reputation, truth is an absolute defense. In other words, you say someone ripped you off, and can prove they did, they can't successfully sue for libel.

Of course, they can always try. But no sane and competent lawyer would take their case, and any competent judge would laugh them out of court if they actually went through it. Such cases are extremely rare.

They'd be even rarer if the US passed a "loser pays" law (a plaintiff that sues someone has to pay the defendent's legal fees if they lose) that almost every other country in the world has but us. But of course the legal industry always lobbys against attempts to pass such a thing, wonder why...

 

Hi All, I have been reading this thread which is very helpful to all coin buyers, but especially those who don't have a lot of experience buying coins on Ebay. I have been buying on Ebay since early 1998 and have encountered all sorts of unscrupulous sellers, have gotten burned a few times, have returned many, many coins over the years (of course, eating all those shipping fees along the way!), and have developed my own personal list of sellers I will NEVER buy from. However, I hesitate to list those sellers since they have often changed their user name, and others may not have had the same bad experience that I did.

But instead, for what it's worth, I thought I'd share a few things that have helped me reduce the chances and occurrences of bad coin buying experiences on Ebay:

- Don't buy from sellers who have a "sold as is" or "no return" policy. I even include on this list sellers who charge a "restocking" fee. And if they don't post a return policy, then take the time to email them and ask them what their policy is before bidding.

- Don't buy from sellers who have less than 98% feedback rating, and it is helpful to read a seller's negative feedback before bidding to gauge the types of issues they may have had (i.e., slow shipping, poor communication, etc.)

- Don't buy raw "red" copper coins - it is too hard to tell whether they have been dipped or cleaned from a photo, and many of them have been at least dipped to "brighten" their color. This includes coins in slabs from so-called "third world" grading companies....

- Don't buy coins from sellers who charge unreasonable shipping fees - they are usually trying to recoup their Ebay and Paypal fees by charging high "shipping and handling" fees, which Ebay had tried to control, but hasn't been very successful.

- If you receive a coin that is unsatisfactory, even if it is slabbed by a reputable grading company, do return it, even though you have to eat the shipping fees, since you will never be happy with the coin and will probably lose more money in the long run by keeping it. Recently, I have received a few certified coins by PCGS and NGC with unsightly spots or dings that were not evident in the photos, in particular, an NGC 1859 MS64 Indian cent (from "Make an Offer" where I thought I got a pretty good deal). I paid over $15 to ship it to me and another $15 to return it. It had several carbon spots that, to me, were unacceptable in this grade, and though the seller was very professional in sending me a refund for the coin, of course I had to eat the shipping fees. However, it was worth it as, to me, the coin was not of the value that I paid and I would have lost money trying to sell it.

- Keep a list of sellers (or mark them on your favorites) who you have had good experiences with and continue to bid on their auctions. I have developed a list of sellers who have been on Ebay for a long time, even keeping their same user name, that I respect - not just because they have decent coins, but also because they have not hesitated to take a coin back if I wasn't happy with it. Just because I returned a coin, doesn't mean I won't bid on that seller's coins in the future. If a seller will stand behind their coins, then I give them a second chance.

Any way, sorry for being long-winded here, but I thought some of these thing might be helpful to the novice Ebayer. You can get some good buys on Ebay, but being a savvy bidder will help keep most of your experiences positive! Charmy

 

No problem with the long windiness of your post. We are here to share and learn.

There is, however, one of your suggestions I disagree with especially when taken as hard and firm.

You have to look at what his feedback really is. Particularly with this new system, one misunderstanding (either of the system or seller) can really do a job on a seller. I have seen negative or neutral FB's stating "OK", "no problem", etc. I had one buyer try to tell me I charged too much for shipping ($1.50) because I sent him a $4.00 coin in a plain white envelope and people here who say they will not leave a positive if it took over 5 days for him to receive his coin (regardless of when it was mailed). If a seller has only sold 40 items in the last year and one was to a cook he now has a feedback of 97.5% but likely is completely honest. I would more trust that seller than a regular seller who has thousands of FB's, but a 99% positive.

BTW, slow shipping does not bother me so much as poor communications, and not as described.

 

Some good info here. It's been at least 8 months since I made an ebay coin purchase. I'm sure there is some deals out there but I still avoid e-bay.