What percentage of coins are over-graded?

In my opinion you may be partially correct. The TPGs may know how often a slabbed coin came in that they graded lower but even then it would be skewed by their grade guarantee offer where they return the coin ungraded if they can't justify what you asked for. CAC by definition would know which coins were under graded and got a CAC sticker. No one would knowingly send a coin in to get the grade lowered.

 

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It's probably happened a few times....I know the owner of a 1927-D Saint wanted a CAC sticker and to get it the coin needed to go down 1/2 grade.

 

I have also read about some coins (gold for example) that were sent to PCGS in NGC holders knowing ahead of time they would downgrade.

 

False. I've done this literally dozens of times; any time I thought a coin was distractingly overgraded in the holder. A coin that I intend to keep in my permanent collection that has a fictitious grade on the holder is of no value to me.

PCGS likes to grade world coins way too liberally. I'd rather have an honest 64+ or 65 in an NGC holder than a 66-67 in a PCGS holder where the grade is someone's pipe dream.

 

Yeah, I've heard of this happening, where people have gone out of their way to get a coin graded lower just to get a green or gold bean possibly (as exception example at that grade) on their new lower graded slab. I don't necessarily understand the logic of doing it, but I've heard of people doing it.

Generally though I think they do it when its been cracked out and submitted hoping it would upgrade, not a crossover but just a break out and submission, and instead of staying the same or upgrading, comes back a grade lower, so then they send it for the green bean shot figuring it's got to be top of the lower grade examples.

But doesn't change the fact that you can get a coin graded, crack it out and resubmit it, and it won't always come back the same grade, sometimes lower, sometimes higher. I've heard of people resubmitting dozens of times to get the grade they want, and paying the fees until the random chance happens and it's seen and in that grade, on the low side of it, but in it.

Anyways, people use the grading companies in all kinds of crazy ways.

 

100%

 

How much does a name on a label contribute to overgrading by a TPG? Gut feeling looking at a few coins says a more important collection seems to be given a degree of leniency when graded. i.e. mutual back scratching.

 

Not only a big name... Stack's W57 St collection got some"special" grades...

That one is weird, though, I've seen coins graded spot on and same date same series two grades off

 

Are you serious? If you ever decide to sell a coin it’s not too bad if the number on the label is high ;-)

 

Following the comment about Stack's which follows my line of thought. I'm wondering because I posted an ex Terner coin in a 64 slab on another thread, but feel a 63 of the same type and date sold a few weeks ago was its equal or maybe a bit better. Another one I eliminated from the collection on the grounds of wear and sold to a good customer of one of the TPGs (we both guessed 63 or 64), but when he submitted it, surprisingly came back in a 66 slab and consequently sold for about 4x what he paid. But he does consign a lot.

 

A tendency not to crack out overgraded coins is going to be a contributor to grade inflation over time as people will see a 63 for example, say mine is better, and then resubmit until the desired grade is given.

 

About 10% are over graded, 5% are under graded, and the rest are right on (85%). I don’t buy into market grading conspiracies to the degree that others do. I feel that TPGs are rather expert at what they do, and get it right most of the time.

Raw? Can’t comment as I do not own, collect, or have anything to do with raw coins, except moderns from various mints around the world.

 

If I sell a 64 and it's in a 66 holder, I'm going to sell it as a 64. The holder doesn't change what the coin is. I don't keep coins in overgraded holders! It would bother me too much to keep in my collection. No different than if the label said the wrong denomination. You get it fixed.

 

If there are internal documents showing that the TPGs are periodically tightening and loosening grading standards, all it would take is a whistleblower to bring the whole thing down on their heads. Most people/companies engaging in fraud take steps to hide or protect themselves from that fraud, but that doesn’t make them innocent.

To be clear, I’m not accusing them of fraud, I’m saying that they don’t have changing grading standards other than the expansion of market grading principles that all go in the same direction.

You’ve been pushing this conspiracy theory that the TPGs have loosened their standards for decades. Do you have any proof?

 

That's admirable but probably unnecesary and not the rule.

First of all, YOU could be wrong -- it could be a 66.

Second, regardless of the REAL grade others could perceive it as a 66 either because that's what the TPGs gave it...OR...because they themselves consider it a 66.

Third, unless something is a CLEAR miss (and there aren't that many), I doubt many sellers would sell something for less than the stated grade....just like buyers would not buy something for above the stated grade on an allegedly "undergraded" coin.

Let's face it, even if the overgrading or undergrading is clear....without or with a CAC sticker clouding it up more....folks will not want to shell out $$$ or sell something for $$$ on the assumption that others will agree with them on the actual grade of the coin as opposed to what the TPG gave it.

JMHO.

 

Nah, I'm not nitpicking on these. I'm talking about obviously overgraded coins. I primarily buy world coins, so I see these all the time with PCGS. They seem to be pretty ok up to around 63, and then they start inflating grades at 64 and above. No idea why. NGC doesn't do this.

Something to keep in mind, I'm not losing money on these. I pay 64 money for a 64, regardless of if it is in a 66 holder. I'm not a dealer, so unless I happened to cherry pick something, I'm generally just looking to break even.

But if the slab is in my collection, I want the grade on it to be reasonable.

 

NGC has been grading world coins significantly longer than PCGS.

 

PCGS has been grading world coins significantly longer than I have, and yet I don't inflate my grades above 63.

 

Neither do they, you just grade differently than they do as does NGC and you're more familiar with NGC