eBay seller is misleading buyers.

RLM is correct, there was less than 24 hours remaining on the auction so the problem came from it not being found until it was too late to do anything but report it and the seller could not have done anything but cancel the listing and redo it anyways, since it had bids. You CANNOT change the Title once someone bids so I see no difference with the outcome. Cancel, pay the fees. Get it yanked, pay the fees. Seller was screwed but the seller screwed himself so maybe he'll use less deceptive descriptions in the Title next time? :whistle:

Ribbit

 

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The second auction of this seller told the real story in that he used PCGS in the title again when none of the coins purported to be MS were in any way related to PCGS. These tactics are only used to defraud the bidders and serve no other purpose.

I'd like to see his second listing pulled for the same reasons.

I would like to thank SilverEagles for bringing this auction to my attention before the sale was over. (He's a lurker here and a good friend of mine).

Bruce

 

If getting caught causes a scammer to suffer, so be it!

 

If you will re-read the 2nd auction, you will see he says it is a relist also, which tells me he used the same tactics on it as the one you first reported and it got yanked also and he relisted it and removed the numeric grade in the Title.

Ribbit :whistle:

 

If he's got decent coins then he'll probably get a decent price for them on eBay. There's no good reason to try to mislead the bidders. Being greedy may work, only sometimes. And where's the satisfaction in that?

Bruce

 

E-Bay seller is misleading buyers

O.K., If I am in violation of the E-Bay rules then I stand corrected, and the listing should be cancelled. I put PCGS and as many words as I can in a listing so it will show up if someone uses that word in the search. If you have ever searched much on E-Bay you know that sometimes words are used in the listings that you would not expect. I had just gotten home, and was taking my wife out to see a movie when I saw the offended individuals e-mail. I came to Coin Talk to ask for opinions, ( my wife was waiting) and saw that I had already been publicly attacked. Sorry for loosing my cool. I have never blocked anyone on E-Bay. I was just mad awhile ago. Yes, I think I can say without a doubt, that anyone who is selling is trying to get all they can out of their items. My feedback on E-Bay is 100%. I invite anyone to look up my I.D. and check it. Check the comments.
Yes, I had 20 Morgans I put into a roll. One was a SGS and I had to re-do the auction last time because I did mention it was a SGS and the grade they gave. I never said original roll. My description said I had bought some nice coins and done this. I am trying not to take offense, but it is hard. With close to 700 positive feedbacks, my reputation is worth a great deal to me. I will be more careful in the future. I will make this offer also to mralexanderb. I will send the Morgans to Clembo or Handsome Toad. They can look at them and tell us all if they think all the coins would grade MS or if some are AU.

ONE LAST THING-
I BROKE THE RULE WHEN I PUT PCGS IN THE TITLE.
See, I've learned something. It's just a shame I feel I've been trashed to do it.​

 

The thing is, explain how PCGS had anything to do with any of the auctions? That, in of itself, is deceitful. It's like hanging a sign on your business that says, EVERYTHING 50% OFF, but nothing is!

So it is a deceptive practice and while it may bring your final price up, it isn't right. You have to ask yourself what's more important to you, final price or reputation?

Ribbit

 

Looks like I called that one. :high5:

 

As I have said, I came here for you guys to give an opinion, you have and I bow to your wisdom. I collect old rattler Morgans (PCGS). When I go to the search I type in PCGS. I also type in rattler. Never, ever in any of my descriptions do I ever claim a raw coin to be anything but that. I get the best picture that I can with my small camera. Yes, I think most people want as many people as possible to view their listing, to attract more potential buyers. I will not use PCGS in my title anymore, because it is against the rules.

 

I think you learned a lesson that should serve in future postings. Ice

 

I think everyone needs to chill out and take a breather on LittleDog.
1) the auction pulls were for a letter number grade not his selling tactics of saying PCGS.
2) you can put your opinion in the title or body or anywhere as a selling tactic. As long as it is not a violation. He has a right to say He thinks PCGS would grade it Highly
3) Good Sales Men are Deceptive, in sales it's called an art.
4) I hate sales and would never try and earn a living practicing such an art.
So to sum it up please quit Dogging the little dog lol

 

Further more I do believe his claim that he came here to Coin Talk to gain from all of your collective vast knowledge to become a better seller and you are failing him and the spirit of Coin Talk to just make him feel ostracized as to instead actually taking the time to teach him and help him. Ok that's all from me. Also Welcome to Coin Talk LittleDog!!! Sorry that your entry was alittle bumpy lol

 

Donn,

Great point! As Mentors, for those who can, it is our task to lead and for those who can't, they should observe and learn. We should never drag a student unwillingly through the muck and mire unless we are willing to go there also. I would imagine that most of us have made mistakes when selling items whether on eBay or elsewhere and most of us have used selling tactics that might be frowned upon by others. Heck, there are 22,187 Auctions on eBay that are supposedly Estate items (note: I intentionally (-) minused out real so as to not include Real Estate) right now but how many of the auctions are for genuine Estate items???!!! This is the most flagarant and deceptive selling tactic used on eBay! Little Dog has learned from his mistakes, has apologized for it and I am sure will be a great contributor on Coin Talk and continued Seller on eBay!


Frank

 

I agree.

I never saw the original auction, so I can't say for sure. But using this thread to piece together what happened, it seems his biggest "crime" is this :

He postulated what the raw coin might grade at PCGS.

Is that so heinous ? If you sold a raw coin, would it be so bad to ponder with the potential buyer how it might slab ?

No. It happens all the time.

Another major indicator : go back and read Little Dog's comments on this thread. Sounds like a stand-up guy to me. It's clear he's learned something, and I think he intends to put those lessons into action.

Contrast his response from what one normally sees from "the accused". How often to you get true contrition... anywhere in this world ?

I ask myself "How contrite am I ?" Hmmmmmm.... could be better, yes ?

All of which leads to one of the greatest punch-lines in history :

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

 

I agree. I know most of the Ebay rules but learned them from watching those that don't. It's a shame folks learn after being trashed on a forum such as this. Let's save the trashing for the real bad guys.

 

I almost agree with two caveats:

1. He's been a member here since November. Between then and now there have been numerous posts and lengthy discussions on the deceptive practices of ebay sellers. Shouldn't he have learned by now?

2. The second auction had "PCGS?" in the title. Nowhere in the description did he mention the possibility that PCGS might give the coins a specific grade, or even that they would grade them. It was improper to even mention the name of the grading service as it implied that the coins were of a quality that would be graded highly by PCGS. That was deceptive.

His claim that his wording was for searching purposes is suspect, or naive at best, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt since he has made a reasonable explanation. There other ways to use keywords to enhance a search without any taint of deception. My favorite way is to add the keywords at the end of the description and then change the font color to match the background color. That way, searching picks them up but they're invisible in the actual listing.

 

You are saying basically he should have learned by now not to be deceptive, or at least he should have learned not to get caught.

 

?

 

As far as I can see, David's method is in no way deceptive and very ingenious! So there is no need to be name callers.

Ribbit

 

The term subliminal message was popularized in a 1957 book entitled The Hidden Persuaders by Vance Packard. This book detailed a study of movie theaters that supposedly used subliminal commands to increase the sales of popcorn and Coca-Cola at their concession stands. However, James Vicary (the author of the study) later admitted the study was fabricated.

"In 1973 Wilson Bryan Key 's book Subliminal Seduction claimed that subliminal techniques were in wide use in advertising. The book contributed to a general climate of fear with regard to Orwellian dangers (of subliminal messaging). Public concern was enough to lead the Federal Communications Commission to hold hearings and to declare subliminal advertising "contrary to the public interest" because it involved "intentional deception" of the public."

It is the exact definition of Deception. Let me it break down (Subliminal Advertising = Deception)