Can Anyone explain this Lincoln Roughy :)

Again, if die polishing is the only explanation, where did the mark on Abe and the memorial come from?

 

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That is you answer then. If they are electroplated, then the zinc is cleaned prior to the plating. Brushed one way then the other.

 

Doug,

Due to the extreme pressure under which the coins are struck, if the grease travels along and parallel to the Die Polish lines and meets with resistance, then it will exert pressure at right or left angles to the lines in an attempt to release the pressure that has developed! The resistance in this case being the devices which have lines (such as hair lines, beard lines, ear lines, etc.) which sometimes cross the Die Polish lines at right or left angles and should somewhat obstruct the linear flow of the grease.

IMHO, the texture on the entire coin from the area above the Memorial Building to the linear lines which show virtually the same texture, are all orange peel.


Frank

 

Doug,

When the Dies are firmly seated against the planchet and the striking process is near completion, then that hole is firmly filled not only with the incuse details on the Dies but also the relief details on the nearly completed, struck coin. At this point, there is no hole per say for the grease or oil to flow into and the details on both the Die and the nearly completed coin which cross the Die Polish lines at right or left angles are the obstructions to the flow. These obstructions which sort of act like dams on a river, may not obstruct the entire flow but they obstruct enough of the flow to cause the grease or oil to exert pressure on the already created pressure ridge lines which run parallel with the Die Polish lines...thus the squiggly lines.


Frank




Frank

 

I could be wrong, but it seems to me that planchet defects are not likely as they would have been obliterated when the coin was struck, especially on a proof coin that is struck twice.

 

Doug,

Have you ever read this post on the NGC forum relating to the orange peel effect. This particular coin has me baffled and I think there are multiple things going on, some die related, others planchet related.

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2794815&fpart=1

Paul

 

I have only one word "STELLA"

 

Very good link, very informative, thanks Paul.

 

I agree and this information gets one to thinking! Since we are talking about a Zinc planchet that is Copper plated and if this same scenario applies, then which of them (the Zinc planchet or the Copper plating) is the culprit for the Orange peel effect on Proof Cents??!! Was the Zinc planchet too hot or too cold when the Copper plating was added or the Copper plating too hot or too cold when it was added to the Zinc planchet???? The scenario is a possible explanation to the cause of the Orange peel effect but still does not explain the lines and squiggly lines of Orange peel effect that are parallel with the Die Polish lines!


Frank

 

It was the concensus of the NGC/PCGS boards that it had numerous issues but the main character flaw was a plating issue in which I would tend to agree. This is my opinion and MAY differ from yours...

 

Is it possible a case of gas bubbles
Jazz

 

Here is a sampling of some of my proofs. All of these are certified 69 UC or DC by PCGS or NGC. BTW, I have several other examples both certified and not, but only dated 1984 to 1995, but not before or after. Funny how that correlates to there plating problem era. My pics are not the worlds best, but I think you can see at least that these are very similar to the OP's.

OK, Doug, if it is die polishing, then all coins series should have some coins with the same effects - dimes, quarters, halves, etc. I showed you 4 Lincolns. Can you show me any from another series? And, since these are all proofs, we will only count proof coins here.

 

I think it occurred over time and they didn't look like that day-one, which goes along your line of thought Doug, that they looked right in the beginning and didn't have the streaks and peel look to them when struck. The planchet was contaminated and electrolysis occurred from the disimilar metals and the weird streaks and orange peel effect occurred because of it.

Ribbit

Ps: In theory, the reason why the raised areas don't show it as well as the smooth areas is because when metal is bent, it strengthens the metal's surface. That's what they do to the body of vehicles to give them more strength to withstand slight impacts.

Pps: In 10 to 20 years, those coins are going to look ugly! That's why I won't collect the copper coated zinc pennies, although in a couple hundred years, they will be worth a fortune because of how few survived the differental metal problem.

 

It might be that they are caused by rough or careless cleaning, wiping, or drying before it was struck. But it is probably in the die the was cleaned in a hurry.

Ah, forget what I said, it doesn't make any sense.

 

Looking at the coins in hand, they look more like organized small bubbles (separations) to me. That much reminds me of something interfering with the plating sticking to the base metal. One thing I can say it that they are significantly wider (dramatically so) than any die polishing lines I have ever seen and I have never seen a die polish line be other that a continuous line. They run from A to B without interruption. These do not. In short, there is nothing about these line that reminds me of die polish.

And then there is the fact that these are proofs. The mint may not have the best quality control, but I find it unlikely that, if the were dies that obviously impaired, they could allow their continued use.

And, although I have not seen as many other proofs, I would say between 1/4 and 1/3 of my Lincolns from that era exhibit that effect to one extent or another. I find it extremely unlikely that I would not have seen at least one of these in another series if they were being caused by die polishing.