Are these 1857 Half Dime's the same?

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by Jesh, Jan 28, 2009.

  1. Jesh

    Jesh New Member

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  3. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    2 different coins.
     
  4. Jesh

    Jesh New Member

    Look at obverse, marking's by 1st and 2nd star, and similiarity in toning on the whole obverse. Odds of that right there is extremely unlikely.

    2nd check the reverse, between the H and A in HALF. Same marks.

    PCGS 3/0... still think they are different?
     
  5. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    The coins were struck with the same dies but they are 2 different coins. Look at the light scratch to the right of the F in HALF on the Heritage coin - not there on the Legend coin.
     
  6. Jesh

    Jesh New Member

    Hmm interesting. I am just stumped by the toning, how is it they are similiar?
     
  7. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Well that's just it, the toning is similar but it is not the same. Easy explanation would be that at some point in time, likely early on, both coins were owned by the same person.
     
  8. Jesh

    Jesh New Member

    Interesting. Thanks for the information!
     
  9. Jesh

    Jesh New Member

    Turns out I was right. George from Legend informed me it is the same coin.

    ~Jesh
     
  10. rlm's cents

    rlm's cents Numismatist

    You beat me to it. I was just going to argue with doug again. Those are absolutely the same coin.
     
  11. Jesh

    Jesh New Member

    Was bought at the the B & M Nov. 2008 auction though, not the HA '07.
     
  12. jgrinz

    jgrinz Senior Member

    I agree with George :yawn: however it looks as though it has been cleaned now as the marks in between the "States of" are gone hmmm Plus the color looks a little bleached now ... hmmm
     

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  13. rlm's cents

    rlm's cents Numismatist

    My guess is that those marks are on the planchet and just do not show at Legend photographically. Were the coin cleaned, the first thing to come off would be the toning and it does not look like that has bee touched.
     
  14. Jesh

    Jesh New Member

    Well the coin in question is on sale from Legend, and George said it was the same coin. I don't see why he'd say otherwise. (Right?)

    One big difference here is the light used in the pictures from HA and from Legend are different, you can tell that part easily. I think that the lighting is causing the reverse to not show the marks. I've taken pictures of my coins with different lighting and/or slightly different angle change and it can dramatically change the appearance of the coin.
     
  15. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Fair enough, I just want to know how they managed to hide that scratch in the Legend pics.
     
  16. Jesh

    Jesh New Member

    Don't know but it's not visible on HA's site when you look at the picture of the coin and full slab.

    Jesh
     
  17. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Boy they sure look different to me. Second pic is the Heritage coin.
     

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  18. rlm's cents

    rlm's cents Numismatist

    I suspect you are looking for things that don't show up in one or the other picture. You have more than once stated that pics can hide/show things virtually at random. I do not think that method is valid. I look for things that are the same. Assuming 1/3 of all those coins have the same mark in the same spot (and that is ridiculously too high), when you find 10 commonalities (same mark/color, same spot), the odds are 60,000 : 1 that they are the same coin. Even on your close ups, I found that many commonalities. Now if that 1/3 is 1/4, the odd are 1,048,000 : 1 and I would guess 1/10 would be more valid.
     
  19. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    You're right I am looking for things that are not in both pics. And I absolutely agree that pics can hide things. But hiding raised metal like at the top of the F in 1 pic and not there at all in the other pic - and hiding a scratch, (if it is a scratch, might be raised as well), is a lot less likely.

    Both coins definitely have the same die clash marks. And different pics could easily explain the color differences. It is just that stuff by the F has me questioning. Pics don't hide that. Guess I'll have to just disagree with the fellow.
     
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