I picked up the following coins back in the early 80's while bumbing aroung south Florida working as a sailor/diver. I'd like to find out their value with the possibility of selling. First is a silver 8 reales coin from the Nuestra Senora De Atocha. It is grade 1, 20.96 grams minted in Potosi during the reign of Phillip III. The coin is custom framed so both sides of the coin can be viewed and includes a certificate of authenticity. This is a great coin with good shape and detail. Second is a silver 4 reales coin from the 1715 Fleet. It is a grade 2, 10.82 grams minted in Mexico during the reign of Philip V. The coin is custom framed so both sides of the coin can be viewed and includes a certificate of authenticity. This is a great coin with good shape and detail. Thanks, Wes
Howdy Wesley - Welcome to the Forum !! As a general rule, that stuff is sold to tourists and the like for way more than it is really worth. And when I say way more, I mean up to 10 times as much. That said, there are still plenty of uneducated people out there who will still the buy the stuff at outrageous prices. But about the only place you are going to find them is on ebay. Knowledgeable collectors will never, ever pay what you probably did even back in the '80s.
The weights for both of those coins seems really low, by about 30%. Could they really have lost that much metal due to salt water? I ask because I assume 'Grade 1' refers to the degree to which the coin has suffered from metal loss, ie, not so much.
My grandpa was the one who originally took the pics and cataloged of all of the atocha shipwreck coins and stuff. I wonder if he took the pics that are in the certificate of authenticity.
Yes the weights are low, way low. And yes salt water can do that. But it was also the cleaning methods that Mel Fisher and his group used - work done in body shops is less harsh than what they did. As for the grades, they are meaningless. They had no idea how to grade coins and so they made their own scale. Basically it ran from 1 to 4 with 1 being the best and 4 the worst. A 4 coin from them is barely recognizable.
I saw some of these for sale last year in one of the Mel Fisher places down there, they were egregiously priced. Obviously someone pays these prices, but they are a turn off for most of us seasoned collectors.
I hate to be classified as a tourist although I can see how you might come to that conclusion. The coins are ligitamate and from the Fishers. You might say this was payment for investment in leau of cash. Anyway they are what they are and if they were not restored properly, there's not much to do about that. The question still remains, what are they resonably worth. I need to part with them, but I don't want to put them on Ebay or something and get scalped. My girlfriend won't let me hang them up (I have too much junk on the walls already) and I hate to see them in storage.
Wesley, I meant no disrespect. I worded it that way - tourist - because tourist are the only people who will pay the prices they ask for those coins. I was being quite literal when I said that they charge up to 10 times what the coins are really worth. I used to live in the Florida Keys, used to know Mel Fisher, and I am quite well acquainted with the prices they sold, and still sell, that stuff for in their shops. I also used to collect these kind of coins, so I know what their value is. And, I myself was the original discoverer of one of the other Spanish wrecks found in the Keys. If you wish to get a real market value for the coins post some good closeup pics of just the coins and I will try to give you an estimate. Or, you can contact Dan Sedwick, probably the worlds leading authority on these coins and he will tell you what they are worth. But if you wish to realize the same kind of price that they sell these for in Fisher's shops and the other tourist shops in the Keys, then your only choice is to sell them on ebay because no coin collector will give you anywhere close to that for them. All I am trying to do is be honest and help you here. Try selling them back to one of Fisher's stores and see what they offer you.
No disrespect taken, I was in my early 20's, I was working as a sailor primarily on the Gulf in the oil industry and spending a lot of my off time diving and playing around in south Florida. I never really paid out any cash for the coins and Ive held them this long more for sentimental reasons. I will take some better pictures tomorrow and get then posted.
what a story it was too. maybe we should go to england or sail around the indian ocean to see if you can discover a wreck full of mohurs
Here are some new pictures of the coins, front and back. Sorry for the reflections, They are custom framed between glass and it would be costly to have them removed.
Nice close-ups. Nice rocks. Let me give you some advice. Your market isn't numismatics. For the reasons aforementioned and then-some. Your market is history. It's the story of the Atocha. It's what's written and authenticated in that case. Simply put, you're in the wrong market, thinking numismatics. Ebay is where you want to be on these, and you want to accentuate what it says in that case. Just my opinion; no disrespect intended. Good luck.
Ok, I understand that no one here wants them. I will put them on Ebay. Could sombody please give me an idea what I should ask for them. I don't want to go too high and waste a lot of money relisting them over and over again. On the other hand I don't want to sell them and find out I gave them away. Its impossible to judge by other ebay sales because they are all over the place and there are a lot of fakes. You guys do this all the time and I trust your judgement and ability to read the market. I never did believe the value Fisher put on the coins, hell you had to take everything coming from those guys with a giant grain of salt. I would have done it for nothing anyway. I had a lot of fun. Anyway give me somthing to work with if it is low I won't be offended.
I guess that it is a small world after all! My first duty location working for Uncle Sam after leaving the U.S. Army was in (Cayo Hueso) Key West. I also knew Mel Fisher and wonder if FreakyGarrett's Grandfather worked for him as a Photographer and is the same person that I sold my Maroon/Red 1977 Pontiac Grand Prix before I left there. This same Photographer asked me to research the records for known Hurricanes during the time period when the Atocha was sunk as well as the possible path of the unknown Hurricane that sunk and the later Hurricane that destroyed and scattered the Atocha's hull and cargo which I provided to him when my research was complete. I have had numerous opportunities over the years to purchase so-called authentic Nuestra Senora de Atocha coins but never have done so because of things that I know and others things that were rumored about the coins! Let's just say that it is a quite possible that quite a few of these coins did not come from the Atocha and leave it at that. It is funny that a (around) 70 or 75 pound bar of Silver that was supposedly stolen from the Atocha (Replica) Museum by a reported big guy (6' 4" tall or more and stocky with blond hair) that jumped into a Volkswagen Beetle driven by another man, was never found (recovered). That within a couple of years of it's theft, some Atocha coins were supposedly and conveniently discovered at a crucial time period in the saga. Frank
Wes I have no idea. But I'll tell you how you find out. Research. Market research. If you're thinking eBay, that's your market. You just have to comb over those sales and compare what you have and figure an asking price. You're a realtor looking for comparables. You want to look anywhere you think you can find them. There's no magic to it. Just work. Again, I wish you luck.
Wesley - the 4 reales coin is so badly deteriorated that I can not even come close to identifying it for you. The 8 reales however I do believe is indeed from the Potosi mint. It was struck in 1621 and can be identified most easily by the transposed castles and lions. using the Sewall Menzel book it is a Type Vb (Po-192). The silver fineness was 0.935 and the correct weight range for these coins was from 26.1gm to 27.4gm. As has been said already, the value of these coins has a lot more to do with where they came from than the coins themselves. Given that the coins are in such poor condition and grossly underweight I doubt their value would even be a couple hundred dollars combined - if that. That said, you may be able to get a better idea if you contact Dan Sedwick as I suggested yesterday. You can do that thru his web site - http://www.sedwickcoins.com/ You would probably have to send the coins to him though. He is completely, 100% trustworthy. And we even have a member here on the forum who works for him. But I still say your best bet would be to offer these for sale on ebay.
