Unfortuantely Story. Don't let this happen to you.

Went to my coin club last night and saw the usual folks. Everybody in the group is as friendly as can be, but most are private people and do not share much about their coin collections. There are a few guys that have put together fantastic high end Morgan dollar collections, the likes of which many of us will only see on the floor of a large show and they are more and happy to share with the group each successful purchase.

This one gentleman was coming to the end of his collection and made a large purchase back in October..... an 1893 UNC Morgan. The cost was over 3k and he made this purchase by paying half with cash and the rest he traded.

Once he got the coin home, he looked it over good and brought it into a few of the clubs here to have other "experts" look at it. Nearly everyone agreed that the coin looked funny and that he should either bring it back to where he got it or send it in for submission. So he decided to do the later, and used the dealer he bought this from as the person to send it in to a TPG - Either PCGS or NGC (can't remember which one).

Well, that was back in October. Since then, he was informed that the coin was returned as being counterfeit by the dealer, but has neither received the old coin or his money back. Obviously, this is a retired fellow that has just lost a bunch of money and he was visibly upset. A lawyer in the group advised him to get his coin back asap. He said that without the coin, he has no proof that anything happened since this was all going on under the table. The dealer could just say that he gave him the coin back and he doesn't know what this guy did with it after wards. If he were to try and pursue this through the courts, the wrong people may get involved (the Feds) and he may lose his coin and lose his money since it was counterfeit, so his advise was to try and solve this by other means. There was some other legal mumbo jumbo that was mentioned but went in one ear and right out the other. Of course, other people in the room told this guy that this dealer just bought a whole bunch of counterfeit coins as real and the dealer himself is going under. It wasn't welcoming news as you could expect. So as of last night he was contemplating what to do next.

Lessons Learned:
1. When buying an super expensive and rare coin, make sure that all your I's are dotted and Ts are crossed. Make sure there is an iron clad return policy. Also, make sure you have receipts and proof of purchase.

2. Make sure you know what you are looking at before you buy it. Although, he recognized that there was a problem, it obviously was a bit too late and what he thought was a long time, trusting dealer has turned into a shady character.

3. Lastly, when buying a coin like that, you should buy one that is already authenticated. Now, obviously there are fakes of those out there, but if you follow rule number two, you should be better protected.

I can't think of anymore lessons now as I am being called to work, but if anyone else can think of any, be sure to put them down.

 

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My counterfeit 1893-S was in an ANACS slab, so even an "authenticated" coin can't be counted on.

True, I bought it sight-unseen, but I knew I could get my money back if the coin was bad.

Even in hand, I was initially fooled, as the coin did have some characteristics of a genuine coin. The date was the giveaway. I sent it back, and eventually got my money back.

Be careful!

 

Well put Joe....

One thing I always do is "Know who I am buying from"...I rarely trust any unknown Dealer with investment over 2K. And everything over 2 K has to be verified through the TPGC.

Great advice Joe!!


RickieB

 

rule 1

make sure u know what you are doing

rule 2 make sure ur dealer knows what they are doing

rule 3 dont buy a coin thats worth more than 500 unless its certified or u like to gamble

rule 4 trading up is bad business it means u didnt do it right the first time

 

Consider yourself lucky. Many people when attempting to return such coins are simply told you must have tampered with the slab.
At a coin show a dealer I know showed me a slabbed coin. The slab said one thing and the coin was so obviously something else it was funny. He said he knew how to open most slabs, replace what's in there, reseal and did this one for a joke.
As most people are also finding out the Chinese are not only counterfeiting coins but they are putting them in a slab they make as well.
Nothing is really safe anymore.

 

and this is the dicouraging part of the hobby...even though it is true.


stainless

 

What kind of slab was it ?

"name brand" PCGS or NGC ?

 

Joe,

Is this dealer an ANA member? If so he must have a reasonable return policy and he must refund the customer's money if a coin he sells turns out to be counterfeit.

 

Bruce, that is awesome info to remember!!!! :thumb::thumb::thumb: I will try to get in contact with this guy and encourage him to look at that. This dealer has been in business for close to 50 years. I bought several coins from him in the early 90's when I was in college. He got most of my money from all the worthless baseball cards I bought back then. I always thought he was shady then.

 

Sad story.......Excellent advice......

 

Joe,

I pulled this from the ANA Member-Dealer Code of Ethics:

If that dealer is an ANA member one of the above provisions should offer some relief to your fellow club member. If the dealer refuses to make good on the deal I would suggest the guy file a formal complaint against the dealer with the ANA.

 

Bruce, I did a search of the ANA website for dealers in WV. Unfortuantely, this dealer was not on the list. I am little surprised by this since this dealer is a fairly large dealer in the state. Where to go from here?

 

Which ethics rules caused them to object?

Ruben

 

You said there are dealers who are not members of the ANA because of the ethics provisions. So I was curious what ethics provisions they were most commonly objecting to?

Ruben

 

Check to see if he is an ANA as an individual. He would still be bound by the Member and Member-Dealer COEs.

 

This is the sad part of the hobby. What's really sad is that maybe 8 out of 10 people who purchased that coin would stash it away and never look at it again, just assuming it was real and the dealer would get away with it. The family would then go to sell it and surprise! It's counterfeit. Worthless. Sorry.

About all you can trust 100% anymore are the old coins that grandpa had stuffed away. A hundred years from now nobody will even have that luxury anymore.

 

I can see the ego part but isn't that a major part of the business? If you're regularly fooled than you shouldn't be in business.