GTG: 1923 Peace Dollar

I'm not one of those crack and resubmit kinda guys. I like the older holders accompanied by a shiny gold oval. This one missed the trip to CAC this round. I will post my CAC results from my submission when they come back. I have high hopes on it.

 

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Relying on a plus grade is almost like relying on a star at NGC. They just don't seem to give them out often on standard submissions. Plus I'm pretty sure @jtlee321 could make a $15 profit on the coin in the current holder (if selling), so I don't see the need to spend money and time to most likely not make much more in a new holder.

 

Best of luck on it! This one deserves the gold.

As far as cracking and resubmitting, there are times that it makes sense. I would just argue that it's rarely worth it with untoned common date coins (that are still fairly common even at 1-2 points higher). To me those look nicer in undergraded holders (especially with a gold oval).

 

Selling the coin at a $15 profit by listing it as a PQ MS64 limits his profit to $15. By cracking and resubmitting, he is basically guaranteed an MS65 which would also yield a $15 profit and he also has the chance that the coin could grade MS65+ or MS66.

Resubmitting brings in additional upside with no downside risk, it’s a free roll. Why not take it?

Btw, nobody is relying on the + grade, a simple upgrade to MS65 gives the $15 profit. And I’ve gotten two + designations in my submissions in the last two years. I have never achieved a star despite submitting dozens of star worthy toned coins. In my anecdotal experience, they aren’t the same.

 

Common dated coins without color usually won't get the benefit of doubt. So the downside risk is not $0. Even though we all think it is higher, this could come back MS 64. That would make it a $25 loss of grading fees (or a net of a $10 loss if it can still be sold for $15 more than the original price paid).
Sure it would be interesting to see the results and I see the argument for resubmitting it. I just wouldn't recommend it in this case.

And I have achieved three stars but never a plus. So my anecdotal experience is the exact opposite of yours.

 

I have $55.00 into this coin, that is what I paid. The asking was $65.00 same as the other half dozen the dealer had. In my mind, the best option at the moment, is a trip to CAC, where hopefully it should get a gold sticker. If that happens, then, if and only if I decide to sell, the gold sticker would command quite a bit of a premium. Say the premium of a 65+ to nearly a 66.

I still have WAY too many coins that need to be graded to begin with, let alone cracking and resubmitting this one. If that happens, it won't be until PCGS get liberal with it's grading.

 

He has an alternative of submitting to CAC which I don’t have. I don’t have submission privileges to CAC and they don’t grade Jefferson Nickels even if I did. I don’t know how much it costs to get CAC approval but a green sticker will do very little for this undergraded coin, he really needs a gold CAC sticker to get a big win.

Unless his photos are hiding something, I would put this coin’s chances of coming back MS64 a second time at less than 1%.

 

I don't have direct access to CAC either and if I had the coin, I still would not crack it. Jefferson Nickels are also different from Peace Dollars or Morgans.

 

If a coin is undergraded, it doesn’t matter what series it is, and the only reason I brought up Jefferson Nickels is to explain why I don’t personally have CAC submission privileges.

Based on your initial assessment in this thread, you had the coin at high end MS65. That’s a whole point and a half above the assigned grade. How high above the assigned grade does a coin need to be before you consider cracking & resubmitting? As far as the money goes, as long as the bottom of the expected grade range covers the submission fee, there is really no reason not to crack it.

I’ve owned plenty of 1923 MS65 Peace Dollars and I don’t remember any of them looking this nice, which is why I guessed MS66. If this was my coin, it would definitely get cracked and resubmitted.

 

I blew one a week or two ago. Other than that it's been awhile. You are correct, usually I am on the lower side. On occasion I get one correct, I'm very pleased with myself.

 

On this coin, I think I'd call the TPG and discuss the grade it received before cracking and resubmitting. Hold them accountable and understand why it only graded as it did.

 

For a common coin, it would need to be two points to be worth cracking in most cases. When I see something like $45/$80/$150/$300 (64/65/65+/66) for the 1923 Peace Dollar, it just isn't worth it for one coin unless I'm certain it would approach 66. If I had multiples that all looked like they could gain $15 by being bumped just one grade, that is a different situation and most likely worth it (considering it's not easy finding one undergraded coin, I wouldn't bank on having multiple candidates).

Now if it's a nicely toned coin, that is different. A one point bump would often be well above the spread between two generic examples (even a half point bump is often worth it).

 

First of all, this is an older holder that was graded many years ago. Most importantly though, TPGs don't discuss grades. Anacs and ICG might give opinions in person (at a show), but PCGS and NGC will certainly not tell you much besides to send it back in for another round of grading (at a fee, of course).

 

If you don't ask, it's an automatic no. A phone call for an explanation bests cracked and resubmitting to me.

 

It's pretty much an automatic no if you do ask (reported from people who have actually tried). And PCGS at the moment has a long call wait time, so one could sit on hold for hours (wasting all that time) only to be told what everyone else already has been told before.

 

Then we must agree to disagree and I'm fine with that. Hopefully, you are too.

 

Yeah, I was considering submission of this coin as part of a larger submission (20 coins minimum). Submitting a coin individually is rather silly unless the coin has a big price tag. The S&H fees will eat up any value.

I think this is probably the missing link in our discussion.

 

I'm willing to give it more consideration as part of a large submission or just as a test of current grading. If I was sending it in though, my level of disappointment would be much higher if it came back a 64 than my level of excitement if it came back 65/65+ (a 66 would be needed to match).

 

Well, I’m a professional gambler by trade, so that kinda stuff doesn’t really bother me.

 

Fair enough. I'm no pro but have gambled with coins. My experiences say certain scenarios seem better to pass than play.