How to safely, naturally tone a coin

Bought this coin a year ago from Heritage and later decided I didn't want to collect graded coins (wanted them all stored in the same fashion). Later changed my mind and sent to NCS for conservation/evaluation and then to NGC. I stated on my invoice very explicitly that grading at NGC was priority over any conservation process (I now know through greater knowledge that these type of spots can't be removed). In all fairness to NCS, their customer service was excellent, and of the 9 coppers I sent in 6 graded (several would not have graded in my opinion without conservation and looked much better, but 3 looked worse, this coin one of them). The coin definitlely had no visible hairlines prior to sending to NCS. The removal of the toning showed the old hairlines. Consequently the coin is more unattractive now and UNGRADEABLE. My dilema is how to safely tone this coin to get it back to it's prior brown color, with the hairlines filled in by the toning. Then I will try and get it graded perhaps. I put the coin in an airtight and in a ziplock with rechargeable dessicant and Taco Bell napkin. I soaked in distilled water prior to being placed in airtight but checked the coin and it looked splotchy with wierd "dry" spots with film developing on coin. I then put mineral oil on coin and stored the way stated above and now it looks fine but don't know if it will tone with the mineral oil on it. I am nervous about safely toning this coin- don't want weird ugly stuff developing or verdigris. :headbang:

 

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So what you are saying is that NGC graded the coin initially in the first pics; you removed the coin and stored it raw, then sent it back to NCS for conservation? And they took a coin that was previously gradeable by NGC, and removed the toning to reveal those hairlines? I assume that NCS didnt create those hairlines and you never cleaned your coin.

That is interesting. I didn't know that toning could conceal cleaning so well that the NGC experts didn't think it was cleaned in the first place. I'm sorry I'm not much help here, I am just trying to get your story straight. That is a bummer If I'm understanding you right.

 

Jam it in a Wayte Raymond album, put it in your attic, and wait 30 years.

Don't rush things. It will look artificial if you screw with it too much.

 

By the way, did someone scrub that coin with a Brillo pad? I see what appear to be a ton of parallel obverse scratch marks on the obverse. If that's the case, no amount of toning will ever cover it up.

 

It does look like somebody tried to remove the spots by using some form of abrasive...

 

Yes, Johnny you summarized it better than I could. I get off on tangents sometimes, so I am told. That is exactly what happened and I did not clean the coin. I dipped in mineral oil and dabbed off. NO WIPING whatsoever, and in fact I told them prior to conservation (in multiple conversations with Danielle over there) that all my coppers I sent in had mineral oil on them. 6 of them graded (in case some people feel I can't competently dab off mineral oil as a newbie- I know what it is to rub and dab- my profession involves the use of detailed fine motor coordination tasks). Stored in airtight in low humidity in ziplock. I still haven't heard back from NCS. I spoke with Craig over there and he is very nice. I feel my coin has significantly devalued.
To Borgovan, the toning absolutely covered up the hairlines. It was brown as you see in the slab and no different out of the slab when I sent to NCS. I will post NCS's response once they get back to me. Once again, not to put down NCS. They know 100X more than I do about conservation, but I do feel this was a big screw up. My invoice stated that regrading with NGC was absolute top priority and conservation to be done only if it would help. :goof:

PS: I would post my 1869 unc coin that they did they same too, but I would be too depressing. I don't want to wait 20 years by the way. I would like to enjoy this coin or sell it and not dispise it as I do now. Doug are you out there. He said in another posts he has seen coins tone in a matter of weeks. HELP??

 

Yes he has but that was with the help of artificial elements, like coating the coin with vaseline and sitting it in direct sunlight for a week.

 

I don't get what NCS did with that coin that I couldn't have done with a bottle of vinegar and some salt. That's unfortunate. BTW, what's wrong with the vaseline method?:smile You're not going to "naturally" tone it enough to hide those hairlines anytime soon so if you're looking to get it back to how it was, it's basically either wait or AT it but I don't believe in ATing if the coin is intended to be sold. That being said, I understand there are probably many ATed coins in NGC or PCGS slabs that sell for large amounts of money all the time.

 

OUCH. If NCS did that to a 14-D of mine, I'd be over there laying a freaking egg in their lobby right now. Getting some attention, lol.

Nothing you can do now besides take the loss and dump it, and hopefully dump it with a proper description.

There are threads on the CU forums about buybacks, but a cracker? Hmmmmm I think your out of luck.

 

Sorry you ruined a nice brown coin. You'd be better off not messing with the coins. Buy the ones you can admire without cleaning them.

Bruce

 

Bruce I am not clear how I "ruined" my coin outside of cracking it out and sending it to NCS. Thanks for the harsh judgement. :crying: Definitely regret cracking it out. Didn't not do any harsh cleaning. These hairlines were on the coin way before I ever bought it. This coin was obviously previously scrubed. If you would read the post more carefully, before sending such a comment it would be much appreciated.

 

Interesting. I didn't know this, but this post obviously backs up that fact. I learn something new all the time.

Out of curiosity Boss, why did you send the coin to NCS instead of NGC the second time for conservation? Was there something else on the coin when you sent it to make you think it might not regrade at NGC?

I'm sorry about all this. It will make me think twice before sending something to NCS. :-(

 

Johnny,
I did not want to collect graded coins as most of my Lincolns aren't/were not graded. Late realized I liked graded coins and want mine graded for a # of reasons- primarily protection, validation by experts, etc. So I was already sending a 9 coin lot to NCS and wanted to see if the dark spots on the obverse would come off. I would never send a coin like that now in, as those spots seem deep in the planchet and probably would only come off with a grinder:computer::hammer:. Expensive lesson learned. Naturally I wish I wouldn't have cracked it out. I just want it to look as normal as possible now. Hopefully in my lifetime. This coin gives me angst:bigeyes:.

 

I am surprised that NCS thought they could get the dark ( commonly called carbon spots) spots out other than physical removal of underlying surfaces. I do not know how they proceeded, but I have always read that the dark spots are actual annealled into the surface and that even "copper dipping" or cyanide treatment can't remove them. I have tried experimenting on culls with no good luck.

Actually I like the darker patina more , even if the hairlines didn't appear.

But I am sure you could still sell well at a discount as it's history reveals it to be genuine but damaged. Many youngsters can afford to wait a couple od decades. Heck I hope I could:bigeyes:

Jim

 

Man, that's tough. Tell you what, I'll give you $5.50 for the coin, plus $3.50 for shipping.

I don't really know what to say. Set it aside, pray for the best, and buy a new one?

John

 

Toning is good ??
An old untouched, seldom handled coin maybe, just because it is all natural. But, to seek them to collect ? Must be for special persons, I would rather look for the original coins that have fine mint detail still on them, kind of like an "un-worn" status.
I am wondering costs associated with getting coins graded.....haven't a clue

 

I have no answer for your question. I only post to say I have seen/heard of this happening before.

 

nice stuff except the third answr. god only knows what you are talking about.

listen to him guys.

dont be too modest you can easily wait a few decades