Ancients - 5 Unit Denominations

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Alegandron, Oct 14, 2020.

  1. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    Please post your coins that represent 5 Units OR 1/5 of a Denomination. Many times these are very common denominations, sometimes they can be very difficult to acquire.

    Here are some of mine:

    PENTOBOL (5 Obols)
    upload_2020-10-14_10-10-33.png
    Ionia Klazomenai 480-400 BC AR Drachm Pentobol 3.5g 13mm Forepart winged boar r gorgoneion incuse sq Cf SNG Copenhagen 12 Rare


    PENTONKION (5 Onkia)
    upload_2020-10-14_10-11-50.png
    Sicily Mamertini 220-200 BCE AE Pentonkion Zeus Warrior Shield Spear Merc Samnites- Messana


    QUINARIUS (5 As)
    upload_2020-10-14_10-13-20.png
    RR Anon AR Quinarius 211-210 BCE 16mm 2.14g SE Italia mint Roma V ROMA Dioscuri H Cr 85-1a SYD 174 RSC33b ex RBW SCARCE


    LITRA (1/5th of a Sicily Drachm)

    upload_2020-10-14_10-17-37.png
    Carthage - Sicily AR Litra 4th C BCE 9.5mm 0.65g Palm Tree Horse Head SNG Cop 74 EE Clain-Safanelli RARE


    Please post your Ancient coins that represent 5 Units OR 1/5 of a Denomination.
     
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  3. Ryro

    Ryro Trying to remove supporter status

    Some great coins Gandy! Gimme five:p
    [​IMG]
    20190326_100616_23B2AF21-7047-4765-81C1-E1694880F4C5-406-0000006F832BF807.png 20190327_121110_F4267B27-A38F-4A85-8B2E-9117FB0A7D5B-469-000000562931701F.png
    20190326_125246_C186211B-23D7-4109-9E99-B6B0046B57B2-406-0000009A2F6753DB.png
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2020
  4. hotwheelsearl

    hotwheelsearl Well-Known Member

    Dumb question, but how does one tell the denomination for these? I’m familiar with Byzantine and some Roman coins denote value with letters, but these don’t seem to
     
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  5. Pavlos

    Pavlos You pick out the big men. I'll make them brave!

    Great coins! I am surprised I only have the litra has 5 unit denomination.

    [​IMG]
    Sicily, Leontini. AR Litra (Circa 476-466 B.C.)
    Obverse:
    Facing lion's scalp.
    Reverse: ΛE-ON Barley grain.
    Reference: Boehringer, Münzgeschichte, 19. HGC 2, 687. SNG ANS 215.
    0.79g; 10mm

    For Greek silver it is based on weight. But there are a lot of weight standards, see: https://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=Greek Coin Denominations

    And for Greek bronze coins we often do not know, for coins from Magna Graecia the denominations are sometimes represented with dots, for example 1 dot is onkia, 2 dots is dionkion etc. Also sporadically coins from other parts of the Greek world show denominations for example ΧΑ (chalkous), ΧΒ (dichalkon) and ΧΔ (tetrachalkon) (this specific example is used for a series of coins in the Seleukid Empire).
     
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  6. +VGO.DVCKS

    +VGO.DVCKS Well-Known Member

    Thanks for that, @Pavlos. I was about to second @hotwheelsearl's question (which was a lot less dumb the first time). ...Never knew what a litra was, either.
     
  7. hotwheelsearl

    hotwheelsearl Well-Known Member

    Follow up to value - did they ever WRITE OUT the denomination?

    currently some countries, America included don’t mark coins with numbers but rather written text - are there any ancient coins that do a similar thing?
    ie, ONE CENT, QUARTER DOLLAR, etc

    you did mention the XA and XB examples, but those don’t seem to be a Fully written denomination And number
     
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  8. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    I understand that the local populations knew the coins and their denominations that were minted locally. I have not seen denoms written out on my coins. If they had a denom, they were by dots, or an abbreviation. Conventions at that time were much different than today. Many coins were by weight.
     
  9. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    Here is a hard-to get denomination: QUINCUNX.

    Odd, because it is 5 Uncia, and several of the cities of Italia were 12 Uncia to an As, so an odd 5/12ths of a As. Some may had 10 Uncia to a Denarius, so they could had represented a Half-As

    Roman Republic

    upload_2020-10-14_17-43-21.png
    RR Anon 210 BCEAE 23 Quincunx 6.96g Apollo P behind Dioscuri Luceria 5 pellets Cr 99-4 Syd 309 S 910 Very Rare


    Luceria
    upload_2020-10-14_17-41-43.png
    Apulia Luceria AE Quincunx 26mm 14.75g- Spoked Wheel 250-217 BCE Athena-Wheel Grose 443 HN Italy 678 SNG ANS 699
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2020
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  10. +VGO.DVCKS

    +VGO.DVCKS Well-Known Member

    @Alegandron, it really does get kind of fraught, doesn't it?
    ...Oh, No, and a Pun! Knowing full well I won't stop myself in time, this one's original:
    There was a wave of bank robberies in London. The perps posed as cops, giving them easy access to the upper storeys of the banks, where the safes were. (...Stay with me for a minute, okay?) They would then rob the safes --cash only, please-- and make their exit out of one of the windows. The tabloids called them the Robber Bobby Bungee Jumpers.
     
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  11. cmezner

    cmezner do ut des Supporter

    The Roman Quinarius was valued at half a denarius. The first were stuck with the introduction of the denarius ca. 212 BC and were discontinued ca. 190 BC. After a ninety years gap without production, the quinarius was revived in 101 BC.

    AR Quinarius, Rome, 87 BC, Moneyer L. Rubrius Dossenus (Rubria Family)
    13 mm, 1.364 g
    Ref.: Crawford 348/4; Sear 261; Babelon, Rubria 4; Sydenham 708

    The altar on the reverse of the coin is dedicated to Aesculapius, on Tiberina island, an island in the Tiber.

    Ob.: Laureate head of Neptune right with trident over shoulder, DOSSEN behind
    Rev.: winged Victoria walking to right with palm branch with attached wreaths ; before her omphalos, serpent entwined around, on altar; behind L RVBRI

    upload_2020-10-14_18-40-17.png upload_2020-10-14_18-40-27.png
     
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  12. DonnaML

    DonnaML Well-Known Member

    Macrinus and Diadumenian Caesar, AE Pentassarion [5 Assaria], 217-218 AD, Marcianopolis Mint, Moesia Inferior (Pontianus, consular legate). Obv. Confronted heads of Macrinus, laureate, right, and Diadumenian, bareheaded, left, [AVT K OΠE]Λ CEV MAKPEINOC K M OΠEΛ ANTΩNEINOC [bracketed portion off flan][ = Imperator, Caesar, Opellius Augustus Macrinus, Caesar Marcus Opellius Antoninus ] / Rev. Hermes standing facing, head left, holding purse in extended right hand and caduceus in left hand; chlamys hanging over left arm; E [mark of value for “5”] in right field, VΠ ΠONTIANOV MAP-KIANOΠOΛEITΩN (ΩN ligate) [ = Consular Legate Pontianus, (coin) of the people of Markianopolis]. AMNG I/I 740 [Pick, Behrendt, Die antiken Münzen von Dacien und Moesien, Die antiken Münzen Nord-Griechenlands Vol. I/I (Berlin, 1898) at pp. 240-241]; BMC 3 Thrace 35 [R.S. Poole, ed. A Catalog of the Greek Coins in the British Museum, Vol. 3, The Tauric Chersonese, Sarmatia, Dacia, Moesia, Thrace, etc. (London, 1877) at p. 32]; Hristova & Jekov 6.24.10.3 [Nina Hristova & Gospodin Jekov, The Local Coinage of the Roman Empire - Moesia Inferior, I - III c. A.D., MARCIANOPOLIS (Blagoevgrad, Bulgaria 2006)]; Varbanov (Eng.) Vol. I, 1192 var. (E to left) [Ivan Varbanov, Greek Imperial Coins And Their Values, Volume I: Dacia, Moesia Superior & Moesia Inferior (English Edition) (Bourgas, Bulgaria, 2005)]; Diadumenian.com /marcianopolis5.html, No. Mar5.33d. 25 mm, 12.89 g. Ex: Dr. Paul Rynearson (ca. 2003); Ex: Kirk Davis, Cat # 75, Fall 2020, Lot 62. (Coin is double die match to Lot 696, CNG Triton XII Auction, Jan. 5, 2009.)

    Macrinus & Diadumenian - Hermes photo jpg.jpg
     
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  13. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Well-Known Member

    I have a bunch of pentassaria. Too many to post, but here's a favorite. Nothing new, just kinda cool.

    [​IMG]
    Gordian III, AD 238-244.
    Roman provincial Æ Pentassarion, 13.30 g, 27.1 mm, 7 h.
    Thrace, Anchialus, AD 238-244.
    Obv: ΑVΤ Κ Μ ΑΝΤ ΓΟΡΔΙΑΝΟC ΑVΓ, radiate, draped and cuirassed bust, right.
    Rev: ΟVΛΠΙΑΝWΝ ΑΓΧΙΑΛΕWΝ, Nude athlete standing facing, head right, holding palm branch and wreath; E in right field.
    Refs: AMNG II, 632.3, p. 276; Mionnet Suppl. 2, 136; RPC VII.2, — (unassigned; ID 48982); Corpus Nummorum Thracorum cn.anchialus.4915.

    And here's a 5 litrae coin of Syracuse.

    [​IMG]
    Philistis, wife of Hieron II.
    Greek AR 5 litrae.
    Syracuse 270-230 BCE, 4.46 gm, 18.1 mm.
    Obv: Diademed and veiled head, l., palm branch behind.
    Rev: ΒΑΣΙΛΙΣΣΑΣ ΦΙΛΙΣΤΙΔΟΣ, Nike driving biga to left, E in l. field.
    Refs: SNG ANS 893; SNG III (Lockett) 1017; Forrer 196.
     
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  14. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    I like that 5-Litrae. Too funny. The 5-Litrae coin would actually be a Drachm on Sicily. I always thought it different that Sicily had a Litra as 1/5 a Drachm, as opposed to Greece having an Obol which was 1/6 of a Drachm
     
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  15. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

  16. cmezner

    cmezner do ut des Supporter

    @DonnaML that is a wonderful coin, a real beauty! Referenced also as Moshumov 577

    I have found that AVT K OΠEΛ ... means Autok[rater] Opel[ius] etc etc don't know if Autokrater is translated as Imperator?
     
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  17. DonnaML

    DonnaML Well-Known Member

    Thank you! I think Imperator is generally considered the Latin equivalent of the Greek Autokrater.
     
  18. zumbly

    zumbly Ha'ina 'ia mai ana ka puana

    They sometimes did. Δ-I-O on the reverse of the Leukas silver fraction below stands for diobol (2 obols).

    Akarnania Leukas - Diobol.jpg
    AKARNANIA, Leukas
    AR Diobol. 0.81g, 11.9mm. AKARNANIA, Leukas, circa 450-400 BC. BCD Akarnania 183. O: Pegasos right with curled wing; Λ, below. R: Δ-I-O, Pegasos facing slightly left, rearing up on hind legs, wings spread.

    It's not very visible on my example below, but the reverse of this issue is marked with T-P-I-H, for trihemiobol (1.5 obols).

    Corinth - Trihemiobol Gorgoneion.jpg
    CORINTHIA, Corinth
    AR Trihemiobol. 0.61g, 9.5mm. CORINTHIA, Corinth, circa 450-400 BC. BCD Corinth 47-8; SNG Cop 25. O: Pegasos flying left. R: T-P-I-H, facing gorgoneion in incuse square.

    Similarly, on the reverse of the Mamertinoi bronze that @Alegandron shared in the OP, you see Π (P) for pentonkion.
     
  19. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    Z, That facing Pegasos is AMAZING!
     
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  20. cmezner

    cmezner do ut des Supporter

    This pentassarion was in the unattributed lot I won at Frank's last auction. It is quite worn, but fun to attribute:

    Moesia Inferior, Markianopolis, 218 - 222 AD minted under Legate Julius Antonius Seleucus
    27 x 27 mm, 12.030 g
    Ref.: Moushmov 674, Varbanov 1620-1621, Zhekov/Jekov 6.28.35.5; AMNG 962; BMC 63v;
    Varbanov 1621 has OVC at the end of the obverse legend while Zhekov/Jekov 6.28.35.5 does not.

    Ob.: AVT K M AVΡ ANTΩNEINOC IOVΛIA MAICA AVΓ laureate, draped and cuirassed bust of Elagabalus r., facing diademed and draped bust of Julia Maesa l.
    Rev.: ΥΠ ΙOYΛ ΑΝΤ CEΛEΥΚΟY ΜΑΡΚΙΑΝΟΠΟΛΙΤΩΝ Dikaiosyne (Aequitas) standing left, holding scales and cornucopiae. E in right field.

    upload_2020-10-15_1-1-49.png upload_2020-10-15_1-2-1.png
     
  21. cmezner

    cmezner do ut des Supporter

    but I am still struggling with Greek:
    AVT K OΠE]Λ CEV MAKPEINOC K M OΠEΛ ANTΩNEINOC would be Autok[rater] (=Imperator) Opel[ius] Sev[erus] Macrinus K[aesar] Marcus Opel[ius] Antoninus?
    can't see Augustus in the inscription:confused:
     
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