Roger Burdette's Saint-Gaudens Double Eagle Book

Anybody read/purchase this book ?

It's FANTASTIC.....just over 600 pages...lots of photos.....a chapter on every Saint-Gaudens year and mint mark coin.....a Price Grid for every coin from 1976-2015 taken from the Heritage database.....stand-alone chapters on the gold standard, Double Eagle/Saint usage in commerce and households, creation of proofs and the Ultra High and High Reliefs...etc.

This book, which relies on the Morse and Duckor collections for photos and data, has coin-by-coin analyses of die varieties, appearances, Mint delivery schedules, Date & Monogram details, and general commentary for each coin.

If you are into Saint-Gaudens DE's, this book is a must.

 

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I haven't read it but you are making it tempting to do so.

 

You won't be disappointed.

It will take a while to get through -- I think it took me about 6 weeks or so -- but it's worth it.

You'll learn about gold-stuff other than Saint-Gaudens coins, too.

 

The one negative on the book is it is solely soft-cover. It's bound well, but for the $$$ it cost I would have preferred hardcover.

If you buy it and read it, be careful the way you hold it (I had mine rest on a pillow while reading) to prevent the binding from coming loose from the pages.

 

Interesting Book Facts #1: Figured I'd juice up this thread from time-to-time with some interesting facts from the book that you might not be aware of.

• 70,290,930 = total number of Saint-Gaudens coins minted, 1907-33.
• 26,951,006 = known melted coins
• 3,707,975 = total known survivors
• 43,339,924 = theoretical survivors not known to have been definitively melted or destroyed

Nearly 40% of all known Saint-Gaudens survivors are 1924-P's.

I myself was surprised that the total of confirmed melted coins is that low (thus leaving open the possibility that 43 MM escaped destruction). It stands to reason that actual survivors is a fraction of that 43 MM (where the heck could they be? ).

We certainly haven't seen any hoards of late (I guess the last major hoard was the 1908 No Mottos).

But you never know....

 

Saw this from a CU post, not sure if I agree but I wasn't that active back then: Saint grading in the early days was a mess from what I have read. 90% were MS63. People were questioning the point of having a TPG if everything was the same grade. The resolution & pop distribution has gotten much better.

Comments ?

 

1908 No Motto Hoard: Was re-reading the outstanding section on the 1908 No Motto Wells Fargo Hoard in Roger's book.

Interesting....the coins were initially offered in MS-65 quality for $1,160. Spot gold averaged about $330 per ounce and an Uncirculated Saint DEs (doesn't say what grade -- MS63 ?) was about $375. The price guide for that Saint-Gauden year included in the book says that the MS-60 sold for $490, the MS-63 for $540, and the MS-65 for $1,150.

Since the price guide MS-65 price matches up well with the initial price for an MS-65 Wells Fargo, maybe the other prices are off a bit since you'd have to go down to AU's to approach $375.

Regardless....buying the Wells Fargo or regular No Motto at MS-65 quality entailed paying a huge premium (350%) to spot gold. Today, you can buy a 1908 No Motto MS-65 for about $2,400 or about a 30% premium to spot gold.

It's counter-intuitive, but when the absolute price is CHEAP the relative price is EXPENSIVE. At these times it paid to buy spot gold for more price leverage and wait to pay the higher price for the Saint later on.

 

1921 Saint-Gaudens: Fascinating chapter, and shows you the depth of Roger's research and how varied the interesting items he includes keep your attention.

Big Picture was this was the 2nd SG DE produced after the interruption of WW I. Less than 200 coins survive to this day, < 25 in MS63 or higher grade. Not a well-struck coin with good luster compared to other coins.

CT State Library curator Goddard got two 1921's from Mint Curator Comparette -- and then apparently kept them for himself.

David Akers noted that the 1921 has changed less in the seven decades (now century) than any other Saint in terms of scarcity. Other coins have risen or fallen in rarity as hoards materialized or did not. And the ranking for Mint State coins leads the 1921 to be at the top of the pack at MS64 or above -- even beating the 1927-D.

Specimens: Very interesting that there are two 1921's which might have been struck on a different press. One has a "Roman finish" the other has been called "specimen" by a TPG. The SP64 sold for just under $1.5 MM in 2006 which was 2x the price of MS65 1921's, so someone is/was willing to pay up for this coin's (alleged) uniquiness. The other coin was supposedly struck to honor a family member of the Ghiradelli chocolate family killed in WW II.
As an aside, I wish it would have been possible to attend a lecture or read a book by Paul Wittlin on how he uncovered all the Saint-Gaudens and other gold coins in European banks. What a fascinating job he had, helping to uncover so many of the valuable pre-1933 gold coins we see in coin displays at shows and for auction online.

 

Rarity Rankings Over The Decades: I thought it was interesting to read about how various coins rose or fell in the rarity rankings as hoards materialized -- or not. Heritage and David Akers note some interesting trends, like that interesting tidbit about the 1921 Saint (see above).

Here's how the inexact but generally accepted rankings were over 3 different decades including the current one:

Rarity Rankings, 1940's/1950's:

ULTRA-RARE….1924-S, 1926-D, 1926-S
SUPER-RARE….1921, 1927-S, 1931-D
RARE……………...1925-D, 1927-D, 1930-S
SEMI-RARE…….1922-S, 1929, 1931, 1920-S, 1908-S, 1924-D

Rarity Rankings, 2000’s:

ULTRA-RARE……1927-D, 1930-S, 1921
SUPER-RARE……1920-S, 1931, 1932
RARE……………....1931-D, 1927-S, 1926-D
SEMI-RARE………1929, 1908-S, 1925-S, 1925-D, 1909-D, 1924-S

Rarity Rankings, 2020’s:

ULTRA-RARE……...1927-D, 1930-S, 1932
SUPER-RARE….....1931, 1931-D, 1921
RARE………………....1920-S, 1927-S, 1929
SEMI-RARE…….…..1926-D, 1925-D, 1924-S, 1909-D, 1924-D, 1908-S

 

BTW, that ranking list does NOT include the 1933 Saint, of course.

 

Thanks for the book recommendation.

 

Did you get it and are reading it ?

Regardless of if you collect Saints or not, it's a GREAT read.

 

I just ordered it off of Heritage Auctions.
Saints are next on my radar so I am glad I came across this thread.

 

Just got my copy in today from Heritage Auctions.
It shipped quickly. I guess it's time to hit the books

 

Enjoy it...it'll take a few weeks to read it (at least) so go slow.

If I had to do it over again, I would have written down useful tidbits and notes from the various chapters (since I wouldn't highlight in the book, obviously ).

But that's just my style trying to improve memory retention of interesting facts and notes.

Just enjoy the book and share your thoughts as you read. Also, feel free to chime in with RWB.

 

Thanks GoldFinger. I will be taking notes and chime in when I have questions.

 

Like I said elsewhere, I liked the Special Chapters that exclude the annual/mintmark coin reviews. They break up the monotony a bit. Very interesting information, too.

COMMENTARY Section was the most interesting for me.....sections with quotes from David Akers or other oldtimers also great....also liked seeing the highest-price sales section....and the Price Grid going back to 1976 was really interesting to see how the coins moved over time, especially in relation to gold prices and/or Price Bubbles.

 

1921 Saint "Specimen" Follow-Up: The 1921 Saint-Gaudens that was NOT owned (allegedly) by the Ghiradelli Chocolate Family was recently sold for $2.1 MM:

https://coins.ha.com/itm/saint-gaud...3-3499.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

Sold for $2,010,000 (including bp) yesterday. Coin was PR64+...Satin Finish Proof....Only 2 examples Known...JD-1, R.8 Proof.

Looks like there could be some new information in the coin description put up by Heritage that wasn't in the book.

 

Page 89, 1907 Arabic Numeral Saint.....look at the top-most arrow in the picture of the rays on the 1907 Arabic Numeral. "Thin die scratches extend between rays on the left side on approximately half of the coins examined. These do not match marks left from die repai and weree probably an incomplete areea that Berber failed to finish."

I look at the picture of the die scratches and it looks pretty much like imperfections in the rest of the picture of the coin. Without the arrows I'd be seeing nothing. How someone could ID that as die scratches...and then know that something that you can barely see doesn't match marks (?) left from "die repair" is amazing. Maybe some of you who have the book and have looked at lots of these coins can tell these differences.

Just amazing....I guess this is maybe 2nd-hand stuff to a professional numismatist or researcher but to me I'm amazed you can tell these are die scratches as opposed to just normal imperfections in a surface that isn't perfectly smooth.

 

Rankings for Saint-Gaudens, By Year (Mint State).... I though this was interesting if you follow population censuses and how they can move over time.

Below are the rankings for Saint-Gaudens Double Eagles in Mint State (60 and above) with the Akers/Ambio 1907-33 Gold Coins book (1988/2012) and Roger Burdette's recent book (2018).

Interesting to see where they diverged. Burdette's numbers are interpolated since his book has a category for "Uncirculated - MS62" category which needs to be adjusted for coins below MS-60.

Roger's rankings are ordered 1-53......you can see where the change is by looking at the Akers/Ambio column.

YEAR Akers/Ambio Burdette

1933 1 1
1927-D 2 2
1930-S 3 3
1932 7 4
1931 6 5
1931-D 8 6
1921 4 7
1920-S 5 8
1927-S 9 9
1929 11 10
1926-D 10 11
1925-D 14 12
1924-S 16 13
1909-D 15 14
1924-D 17 15
1908-S 12 16
1925-S 13 17
1926-S 18 18
1922-S 19 19
1913-S 21 20
1909/8 20 21
1909 22 21
1914 24 23
1908 Motto 25 24
1915 23 25
1908-D Mot 28 26
1911 27 27
1913 26 28
1912 29 29
MCMVII HR 32 30
1916-S 35 31
1910-S 30 32
1913-D 31 33
1909-S 37 34
1920 36 35
1914-D 40 36
1911-S 34 37
1910-D 39 38
1923-D 41 39
1910 37 40
1907 Arabic 43 41
1911-D 42 42
1915-S 44 43
1908-D NM 33 44
1914-S 45 45
1923 46 46
1922 48 47
1926 47 48
1908 NM 51 49
1928 50 50
1925 49 51
1927 52 52
1924 53 53
1907 UHR NA NA​