A to Z: The First Alphabet

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by robinjojo, Oct 10, 2020.

  1. robinjojo

    robinjojo Well-Known Member

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  3. thomas mozzillo

    thomas mozzillo Well-Known Member

    I watched it and found it well worth watching. Very educational to see the evolution of the alphabet.
     
  4. NewStyleKing

    NewStyleKing Beware of Greeks bearing wreaths

    Good ole Mr & Mrs Petrie.
     
  5. onecenter

    onecenter Member

    Thank you for this information.
     
  6. TIF

    TIF Always learning.

    Looking forward to watching this later today. Thanks for the link :).
     
    Orfew likes this.
  7. ancient coin hunter

    ancient coin hunter 3rd Century Usurper

    Yes, thanks. I'll give it a look see this afternoon.
     
  8. kanga

    kanga 65 Year Collector

    THAT was a good program.
    Well worth the time to watch.
     
    Alegandron likes this.
  9. scottishmoney

    scottishmoney Buh bye

    When you get into the second part of the Nova programme they discuss manuscript books and then get into printed books. For most books prior to printing, it took a scribe around a year to hand print and illustrate a bible. The first printing was in China using handcarved wooden blocks. Johannes Gutenberg upped the ante considerably with cast movable type.

    What I enjoy about watching programmes such as this on PBS is no commercial breaks and mandatory rehash of prior info to refocus after the commercial pause.
     
    TIF likes this.
  10. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    Thank you for posting site. I saw this in a Nova daily email, but had not got around to watching. It is an incredible production. Easy to follow, succinct, and credible. Really enjoyed it!

    Being dyslexic myself, it was easy for me to visualize the changes in letters, however, always tied back to the original symbol.

    My only question was that Humans always see / write in two dimensions, when we are actually in a three-dimension physical world. Interesting that we could never leap to that complexity. (Research is finding that the dyslexic mind is highly spatial, and why our minds/thoughts/ideas may come from a different direction from non-dyslexic minds. Some cool work at Indiana University.)

    upload_2020-10-11_10-3-25.png
    Egypt,
    21st Dynasty,
    Pharoah Neterkheperre aka Netjerkherre-setepanamun Siamun,
    986 - 967 BC
    Scarab reading "Si-Amen"
    measuring 16x11mm.
    Ex DeVries Collection.

    For reference, see:
    George Fraser, A Catalog of Scarabs Belonging to George Fraser, pg. 41, #329, Plate XII.
    George Fraser, Catalogue of Egyptian Scarabs, Etc. in the British Museum, Volume I, Royal Scarabs, pg. 239, #2385-9.
    E. Hornung & E. Staehelin, Skarabaen und andere Siegelamulette aus Basler Sammlungen, pg. 298, #431, Plate 46.
    Foud Matouk, Corpus du Scarabe Ehyptien, Volume I, Les Scarabee Royaux, pg. 125, 126, 197, #736, 737 and 744.
    Percy Newberry, Egyptian Antiquities, Scarabd an Introduction to the Study of Egyptian Seals and Signet Rings, pg. 184, #33, Plate XXXVI.
    Flinders Petrie, Historical Scarabs, Plate 55, #1739-42.


    upload_2020-10-11_10-10-12.png
    Egypt, 16th - 11th Century BC
    Scarab reading "Establish thy Name, Create a Child For Me", or "Amen Create for Thee All Children", measuring 17x12mm.
    ex DeVries Collection.
    For reference, see:
    Guy Brunton, British Museum Expedition to Middle Egypt, #42, Plate LXII.
    George Fraser, A Catalog of Scarabs Belonging to George Fraser, pg. 53, #450, Plate XV.
    E. Hornung, Skarabaen und andere Sigelamulette aus Basler Sammlungen, pg. 332, #715.
    Fouad Matouk, Corpus du Scarabee Egyptien, Vol. 2, Analyse Thematique, pg. 172 & 400, #1540.
    Percy Nerberry, Egyptian Antiquities, Scarabs, an Introduction to the Study of Egyptian Seals and Signet Rings, pg. 189, #7, Plate XXXIX.
    Percy Newberry, Scarab Shaped Services des Antiquities de l'Egyt...pg. 96, $36381 (dated to 19th Dynasty).
    Flinders Petrie, Buttons and Design Scarabs, pg. 21, #679 and 680, Plate XII.
    Hilton Price, A Catalogue of the Egytian Antiquities in the Possession of F. G. Hilton Price, pg. 65, #571.

    upload_2020-10-11_10-4-59.png
    Campania
    CAPUA
    AE 14.5mm
    216-211
    Hera
    Oscan symbols, Grain ear
    Hannibal's capital of Italia
    SNG Fr 517 SNG ANS 219 HN Italy 500
    Ex: EE Clain Stefanelli collection
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2020
    +VGO.DVCKS, Theodosius, PeteB and 5 others like this.
  11. Orfew

    Orfew Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus

    It is fairly rudimentary though well done. It goes through the basics in a rather generalist approach. That is fitting because I am guessing they wanted to reach as many people as possible without descending too far into the technical specifics. In particular the move from a logographic system to an alphabet was not as straightforward as the presenters implied. I am guessing that this was because most of the viewers do not have an advanced degree in linguistics and have no interest in pursuing one.

    If you want to dig deeper after viewing the program just let me know and I can send you a reading list. First on the list would be a book entitled "A is for Ox".
     
    DonnaML, TIF and Alegandron like this.
  12. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    TV Show NOVA is made for mass consumption. In my view, you are correct that they wanted to make a reach to as many folks they could. However, that creates interest and support. I am not a scholar, never will me. However, I enjoy consuming info as a Generalist... cuz I think it is COOL. I will let the details and minutiae fall to she scholar Specialists. :)
     
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  13. Mr.Q

    Mr.Q Well-Known Member

    NOVA is a fantastic knowledge based show. It peaks one's interest, I enjoy most of their programs with the exception of very few. Thanks for the post.
     
  14. Kentucky

    Kentucky Supporter! Supporter

    Here's a challenge. I would like to watch Nova First Season Episode 6. Where do I get it?
     
    robinjojo likes this.
  15. Orfew

    Orfew Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus

    Seems like there is more than one book called A is for Ox. The one you want is:
    A is for Ox: A Short History of the Alphabet
    by Lyn Davies
     
    robinjojo likes this.
  16. +VGO.DVCKS

    +VGO.DVCKS Well-Known Member

    Thanks, @robinjojo. I'm about to watch it; hoping, very optimistically, that it's not old enough that I've seen it before.
    ...Meanwhile, one thing of particular interest from here is the question of when hieroglyphics began to take on phonetic, along with ideographic value. ...Right, especially relative to cuneiform, and early Semitic (anachronism alert: ) alphabets, as eventually adapted, to one degree or another, by the Greeks.
    (...Nope, Noam Chomsky would be my god, Only if the place weren't already well spoken for.)
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2020
  17. robinjojo

    robinjojo Well-Known Member

    Kentucky likes this.
  18. robinjojo

    robinjojo Well-Known Member

    I agree.

    Nova's objective is to get the public interested in science and history. The program on the alphabet's evolution is a distillation of a very complex subject. I think they would likely loose at least half of the audience if all of the lingual factors that influenced the development of the alphabet and language in general - fascinating subjects well worth a lifetime's study.

    Can't argue with success...
     
  19. +VGO.DVCKS

    +VGO.DVCKS Well-Known Member

    (And here I am, trying to power down enough to sit in front of this Nova thing: )
    Thank you, @Alegandron. ...In effect, the origin and ensuing complexity of language is that deeply intertwined with the complexities and limitations of what happens between anyone's ears. ...And I'm seeing your dyslexia with my autism spectrum. Not raising, just seeing. ...After which, I fold. Meaning, mostly, No, really, I need to watch this.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2020
  20. robinjojo

    robinjojo Well-Known Member

    Yes, producing a book or manuscript before the advent of the printing press was a laborious process, and was a major factor in the lack of dissemination of knowledge in the Middle Ages.

    It is interesting that papyrus, used by the Greeks and Romans was readily available but not widely used after the Roman Empire ended. Its successor, parchment animal hide, was much less available.

    Still the Middle Ages produced some beautiful illuminated manuscripts and books of great artistry.
     
  21. +VGO.DVCKS

    +VGO.DVCKS Well-Known Member

    ...@robinojo, Nope, this is totally new (...like, er, you said, premiering in late September).
    Back to when I still did television, blissfully innocent of cable, it was like, if there was nothing on PBS, it meant there was nothing on. ...Nope, time to shut up.
     
    scottishmoney likes this.
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