What to do? Not sure what to do,got a counterfeit from the shop

so, I got excited when in the coin shop with my gift card and bought a Karl Goetz opus#156 medal, The Sinking of the Lusitania. Or so i thought. Once at home pulled out the catalog and it says "There are many copies in circulation, manufactured by British propoganda material. All these are struck with the month as May instead of Mai, but there also exist copies with the spelling Mai made by a firm in PA after 1918." Well, mine says May instead of MAI once I get home to look at it and the book, it says MAY. It was $80, what should I do? Go back to the shop and renegotiate the price, chalk it up to an education or straight up return it? Or another idea. Any and all ideas appreciated. Thanks

 

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is there any value of the one you got?

 

I'm not sure. WHen I thought it was real, it was worth $80 to me. Not so sure now. It does have some light rust on it though.

 

If you like enough to keep it maybe see if you can return it and let them know your interested in re purchasing it for a realistic price being what it is.

or dont like then try to just return it.

Edit: be sure to bring your catalog

 

Don't know anything about medals, but here's a whole website devoted exclusively to the one you're talking about:

http://www.lusitaniamedal.com/index.htm

 

here are some links to the real and copies: http://www.woodrowwilson.org/visit_sub/visit_sub_show.htm?doc_id=375382
http://cunardwhitestar.50webs.com/lusitania/goetz.html
http://www.lusitania.net/memorbilia.html
2005 heratige auction (STL) of copy piece sold for $39 in MS 60 Lot: 10102
Auction: 372

 

Thank you, I hope his email is still valid.

 

geta refund no questions asked or send him to jail for selling you counterfeit stuff that kind of thing is not encouraged

 

I believe the crux of this will be in what the medal was actually offered as. How was it described in the shop...... if the description they gave was false then you have recourse to get your money back... If it is 'as described' and you have overpaid, then you lose, thus learning a valuable lesson in checking validity and value before buying.
Best wishes, Mike.

 

Return it.

I don't want believe that the dealer was trying to cheat you.

Just explain to him what you learned.

 

I agree and you will learn if this is someone you can deal with in the future. Bring in you catalog and be careful they may try to talk you out of a refund or exchange. You will probably always have that little doubt in the back of your mind

 

Noost...if it were me....

I would go back to the dealer and educate him. Ask for a credit to show good faith and have him display the coin as a "fake" to make him look good to his customers. That would be a win win for everyone!

Good luck!


RickieB

 

When you go back to the dealer to "educate" him, don't be condescending or rude. He may know something you don't. Take the reference with you, and ask him if he still thinks the coin is genuine and, if so, why.

 

Is the dealer an ANA member? If so he must abide by the ANA's dealer member Code of Ethics. He must agree to:

• To not knowingly handle for resale forgeries, counterfeits, unmarked copies, altered coins or other spurious numismatic merchandise that is not clearly labeled as such.
• To frequently publish my statement of return privileges, which will allow my customers a designated period of time in which to return numismatic material for a refund, except bullion or bullion-related material may not be returned for a refund. Said period of time shall not be less than fifteen (15) days from the recorded date of receipt . . .

If he will not make you whole regarding the counterfeit (full refund or refund for portion above the value of the fake) I would report him to ANA.

 

Take it back with your documentation. Be nice and any respectable dealer will work with you....

 

Any dealer with an ounce of creadability will take it back. You have better places to spend eighty bucks. Make sure there are other customers in the store so they can hear the situation. Trust me, he'll square up with you.

 

Don't be so quick to condemn the sale of this counterfeit. The British and American counterfeits of this medal had an important propaganda purpose before and during the first world war and are important historical artifacts in their own right. Some counterfeits inhabit a "gray area" which make them collectible and sometimes highly valuable pieces. For example a counterfeit 1742 gold doubloon from the Lima mint that was made by a neighbor of George Washington. It is unique and has sold for a couple 600K dollars The guy later made some more doubloons with his own design on them. We know the counterfeiter as Ephaim Brasher. Would you send the principals of Heritage to jail for selling that counterfeit?

A counterfeit has to be looked upon and evaluated based on it's intended purpose. Contemporary counterfeits intended to circulate at the time are and should be viewed differently than counterfeits made at a later date specifically for the purpose of cheating collectors. And in the case of this medal the British counterfeits were made to try and prove that the Germans had deliberately planned to sink the ship because the medal was dated two days before the date the ship was actually sunk. (The German medal was it's own propaganda against the British showing that they were sending their own people to their deaths by selling passenger tickets to people for ships carrying war materials that were legitimate military targets. If I was collecting this medal, and I have considered it, I would want examples of the original error German medal, the corrected version with the proper date, and one of the "counterfeit" British and/or American propaganda pieces.

 

Thanks for all the replies. When I saw it I asked the kid if this was a Karl Goetz medal, he said that I probably know more about these than him. I said probly not, so he went and asked another dealer who said it was a Karl Goetz Medal. So, I'm not sure if that makes it a misrepresentation or not. I feel kind of embarrased, and it would be worth $20-$30 to me . I was just not sure of the protocol of renegotiating the price when something like this happens.

 

OK. So the dealer did not know it was fake and did not misrepresent it. He simply did not know. Not every dealer can be an expert on every single numismatic item out there.

On the other hand, he is obligated to make you whole since he (unknowingly) sold you a fake. If you are interested in keeping the medal but not overpaying for it I would recommend that you approach the dealer and tell him that you have investigated this medal and discovered it is a fake that is worth $20 to $30 to you and ask him to refund the difference. If he refuses ask him to give you a FULL refund and hand him the medal. Now that he knows it is a fake he cannot rightfully sell it as genuine.

By the way, ANA offers mediation for situations like this. Mediation is free for members and there is a small fee for non-members.

 

Ok, thanks. I'll post what happens.