Featured EID MAR chronicles

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Ocatarinetabellatchitchix, Aug 16, 2019.

  1. Rich Beale

    Rich Beale Well-Known Member

    Except that it isn't - they don't get any more blindingly obviously authentic than this. It's best not to rely on second-hand chitchat from lamoneta.it where they don't even believe that EID MAR denarii are real: apparently little green men planted them as a hoax or something.

    Thank you, I hope you enjoyed browsing it as much as we enjoyed cataloguing it.
     
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  3. Cucumbor

    Cucumbor Well-Known Member

    Browsing the RR and Imperatorial catalogues made my day !
    Every lot I thought "oh that's gorgeous, I should check if I can allow myself to bidding on it". And every next lot was even better. Now I don't know where to look....

    Q
     
    Roman Collector likes this.
  4. kazuma78

    kazuma78 Supporter! Supporter

    This sale is fantastic. I'm hoping to win 1 of the syracuse lots. Can't wait!
     
  5. IdesOfMarch01

    IdesOfMarch01 Well-Known Member

    In all likelihood, the hammer price will depend on the number of bidders who are comfortable with the coin's authenticity.

    Let's hypothesize that there may be a half dozen bidders who can afford the coin. If all of them are engaged in the bidding, the price will be high, since everyone else's bid will reinforce each bidder's confidence in the coin's authenticity ("If he/she is bidding on it too, the coin is probably authentic."). But if only a couple or maybe three bidders emerge, the hammer price might still be high but lower than expected, since a little wariness will creep into the bidders' psyche ("I know there are others who can afford this coin -- why aren't they bidding too?").

    In any event, it should be an interesting auction.
     
  6. TuckHard

    TuckHard Well-Known Member

    Cool thread, that gold piece is really something to see. Here is the EID MAR shown in the 1861 Coins, Medals, and Seals: Ancient and Modern by William Cowper Prime, available for free on Archive.org.

    upload_2020-9-13_3-23-42.png
     
  7. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    The old saying is that if you have to ask, you can't afford it. I am sure that the coin will sell to someone for whom $5 million is like $5000 is for most of us and I would not be surprised if it ended up 'on loan' to major museum. The write up for the lot even addresses the progress of some of the marks which makes it a good thing that they used the denarius dies. Were the aureus dies different, the process of authentication would have been harder. I would love to know how many aurei were made in the first place and to what use they were put. I could see a small issue with one each going to VIP's of the faction. Lets spread the rumor that Brutus himself presented the coin to a galley captain just before both of them were eliminated. That should guarantee the $5 million number.

    If I found a coin like that in my attic, you would never know for at least a few generations. The provenance is worth as much as the coin. Without it, I would think, at least two countries would already have sued for repatriation.
     
  8. DonnaML

    DonnaML Well-Known Member

    The valuation catalog at the back of my copy of the 1784 edition of John Pinkerton's Essay on Medals values the Brutus gold Eid Mar aureus at 25 pounds -- the highest of any ancient Roman coin. The Eid Mar denarus is valued at only 6 1/2 pounds, by contrast.
     
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  9. Ocatarinetabellatchitchix

    Ocatarinetabellatchitchix Well-Known Member

  10. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan Eclectic & Eccentric Moderator

    Sure, 25 quid was a ton of money in 1784, but just the sound of that... wow.
     
  11. coll20

    coll20 New Member

  12. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Well-Known Member

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  13. panzerman

    panzerman Well-Known Member

    Yes, but it was easier to save up 25 Pounds in 1784/ then 3.25M Pounds in 2020. In 1784 25 Quid=$125 Gold Dollars.
    Now 3.25= $4.1US:(
     
  14. Herodotus

    Herodotus Well-Known Member

    Since one of these is currently up for auction again, I figured that I'd resurrect this thread.

    https://leunumismatik.com/en/lot/30/2290 -- Starting/Estimated @$20000CHF

    Any guesses on the hammer price? It's a little rough around the edges, and possesses some 'character' flaws.

    [​IMG]
    Brutus, † 42 BC. Denarius (Silver, 19 mm, 3.68 g, 12 h), with L. Plaetorius Cestianus, magistrate. Military mint traveling with Brutus and Cassius in western Asia Minor or northern Greece, late summer-autumn 42. BRVT IMP - L•PLAET•CEST Bare head of Brutus to right. Rev. EID•MAR Pileus between two daggers pointing downwards. Babelon (Junia) 52 and (Plaetoria) 13. BMC 68-70. Cahn, EIDibus MARtiis, p. 217, 12 (same dies). Cohen 15. Crawford 508/3. CRI 216. Franke-Hirmer pl. 26, 99 (same obverse die). Sydenham 1301. Very rare. An attractive example of this exceptionally important issue, with a very sharp and clear reverse. Somewhat porous, and struck from a worn obverse die and the reverse a bit off center, otherwise, very fine.



    I would wager it hammers for $35 Gs in today's current ancient's market frenzy.
     
  15. DonnaML

    DonnaML Well-Known Member

    No stated provenance?

    The obverse is dreadfully unattractive .

    If I had that kind of money to spend on a coin, it wouldn't be on this one.
     
    rrdenarius and FrizzyAntoine like this.
  16. Herodotus

    Herodotus Well-Known Member

    I concur. The obverse is certainly in a 'space-filler' state of preservation.

    Condition issues aside, I could still find a place for it in my collection for its historical merits.:)
     
    DonnaML likes this.
  17. AncientJoe

    AncientJoe Well-Known Member

    While I haven't seen it in hand, that obverse doesn't exactly scream "genuine" to me.
     
  18. Herodotus

    Herodotus Well-Known Member

    Is there a known finite count on these? Or at least a rough estimate on ones known to be in existence?

    Along with Donna, I'm curious as to the lack of any provenance for this coin.
     
    DonnaML likes this.
  19. johnmilton

    johnmilton Well-Known Member

    The all-important reverse is rather nice, but the obverse falls into the “filler” class. If “35G” means $35,000, I’ll pass.

    One of my rules is if I can’t afford a decent example of something, I go without it.
     
    DonnaML likes this.
  20. johnmilton

    johnmilton Well-Known Member

    It could be. Coins with a rough surface like this, where all of the original skin has been stripped away, leaving a granular finish could certainly be the sigh of a cast copy. Authentication can be a challenge.
     
    DonnaML likes this.
  21. Barry Murphy

    Barry Murphy Well-Known Member

    This new Leu Eid Mar is a bit of a puzzle. It purports to be from these dies:

    upload_2021-9-24_8-14-5.png upload_2021-9-24_8-14-23.png

    This is the Leu 17 (1977), lot 833 = Naville II (1922), lot 37 example.

    Technically, Cahn calls it this reverse die from the ANS specimen, which Cahn calls a different die than the above specimen, but I think they are probably the same die.

    upload_2021-9-24_8-41-34.png



    upload_2021-9-24_8-18-36.jpeg

    BRVT lines up pretty well as does IMP in relation to the nose. And the reverse is a perfect match. What I don't understand is the shape of the ear which is very angular on the new specimen, the A in PLAET points below the ear on the new specimen, and CEST appears to be too far away from the bust (in fact on all the dies the bust almost sits on top of CEST, and I don't see that on this specimen). Looking at all the other known obverse dies for this issue (8 at present count, for the 95 coins I have photos of), this new example doesn't match any of the other dies either.

    So I guess this could be a new obverse die. Nothing from the photo suggests that the coin is a forgery. I will add this to my files for now. Hopefully I get a chance to see this coin in hand.

    Barry Murphy
     

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