Mr. Carr is a "Perfection" Freak!

Corgi Dude,

Had another thought . . . it's a curse really . . .

You call his fantasy artwork "crap" when really, all that he is doing to these is giving them imaginary "born on" dates. Because other than that, they resemble beautiful examples of US Coinage.

Perhaps your disdain isn't for the artist Daniel Carr, but is for the original mint designers and their work??

Or are you really railing against the CONCEPT and not the object? It really isn't clear to me.

Derp, derp, derp and good night . . .

Z

 

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I wasn't railing against anything. I was asking a series of questions to help me (and, in a way, other readers) figure out if they deserve the "counterfeit" rap that some claim. You asked if I bought any of his work. I, in my endearing way, said in effect "no". In doing so I denegraded his work, but admitted it. Then I tried to defend myself against the accusation that I called his work counterfeit (which I didn't, but you incorrectly inferred that I had), by pointing out that I called it crap but not countefeit (this amused Lehigh I guess).

Now you are inferring that since I call an overstrike "crap", that I am also somehow calling the original designer's works "crap". All I can say is stop inferring and assuming stuff. Your not good at it!

Good night.

 

That's the part that's boggling - I don't know!

 

It’s beautiful. Which seems to be a popular opinion as they appear to be 200$ and up.

I mentioned his name to a local LCS ruffian today and got an earful btw.

 

You are correct, but it has always been one of the biggest dogs in the fight/argument.

That argument is/was where does the definition of intent to defraud end.
On one side it is with the seller that sold them lawfully.
The other is what does the next guy do?

Yet, this thread is about his craftsmanship of the coins, tokens, medals, and overstrikes themselves.

 

I believe the sad event here is that individuals are posting STATEMENTS of artwork being sold as "coin". The most common definition of same is: "a flat, typically round piece of metal with an official stamp, used as money". Does the artwork include "an official stamp"? I don't know, but think not!

I believe a legal process may, or might have found these statements to be improper, and possibly defamatory. A situation similar to past Alan Hager defamatory posts on this site, which precipitated an adverse court action against posting individuals.

While we all are legally allowed to voice our opinions here, as some state, they should honestly be stated as such, and I believe the T.O.S. for this site indicate that exceptions to a family environment will be altered/struck.

Let us be an objective family rather than liars stating untruths.

Postal employees, knowing my activities, have asked about their having been paid with ASEs as legal payment?

Are they fraudulent "coin"? You tell me, as I haven't seen a reporting as such!

JMHO

 

I find it amusing that he complains on the moonlight mint website about cheap China knockoffs similar to his own products in appearance, as if he's cornered the market on "fantasy coins" and holds the patent to it or something.
"unauthorized replicas of Daniel Carr coins"

HAHAHHAHAHHA! on his original creations, I'm on his side, but on his "replica fantasy pieces",,,,, nope!.

 

Thanks for the heads up. I just placed an order for a Buffalo and a Flying Eagle. I've been a fan of his work all along but this is my first purchase.

 

I couldn’t figure out how to navigate his site to even find prices. Being a Luddite has its drawbacks. Any help would be appreciated.

 

At the risk of derailing this thread too. The argument is not with the definition. The definition is clear. The only argument would be with what fits the definition. People can say they are arguing over the definition but that is like arguing over the existence of a Flying Spaghetti Monster, or if 2+2=3. One side isn’t arguing they are just confused or ignorant of facts.

 

What is "Real" or "Not Real" (i.e. you've stated)? Can you define real as anything other than "original" or its synonyms? Although you didn't legally meet the very specific standard for counterfeit, I believe defamation conditions may exist. What do you relatively think?
https://www.thesaurus.net/not real

JMHO

 

perhaps authentic and not authentic

 

CoinCorgi, posted: "Is he selling his overstrikes as, say Peace Dollars? Or is he selling them as overstrike fantasy peace dollars? I really don't know and this bit of info is relevant to the discusion. How he words it makes the difference between fraud and not fraud."

Yet you are posting opinions. Do you know now after reading the comments of other members so far?

 

I do think this thread turned out how the OP with his little box of perfect coins might have wanted or expected.

 

Yes, and I've acknowledged it.

 

Cachecoins, posted: "I do think this thread turned out how the OP with his little box of perfect coins might have wanted or expected."

Actually, you don't have a clue. I was hoping Mr.Carr would see this and respond. I wish to know how he is able to produce a large % of perfect coins AND how many rejects go into the melt pot because they are not perfect.

 

@Insider posted "NUTS to you!"

cashews, lightly salted. Thank you.

 

Other people can make fantasy pieces, they just can't pretend they were his work. They try and pass it off as his work because of the premiums his carry.

 

Well considering he's charging $45 for his fantasy 2004 or 2005 W jefferson nickels, I'd say a LOT of them go into the scrap bin to get to the nice ones to sell!

He does have a Denver Mint surplus Grabener coin press so he's using the same minting equipment Denver and Philadelphia mint uses, as long as his designs are good going in, he will have quality coming out, and not have the quota the mints have to produce mass quantities so he can take his time to avoid contact marks and stuff the mints don't have time for.

Is he even a member of Coin talk to see any of this? apparently yes, yes he is. Last seen Jul 13, 2020. someone has tagged him in already on page 1 so I won't do it again. if he comes on he will likely see the notification. Maybe you get your wish sir!

 

Greetings Folks, I'm back . . . . .

Now that we have beat the topic of "counterfeit" to death and determined that Carr's creations DO NOT fit that definition, let's turn our attention to one of interest to @Insider - that of third party grading (TPG).

Many posts (see above) have reviled any firm or individual that would grade and certify any of Carr's creations. I think most vilifier's have lost sight of the fact that ALL TPS's have graded and certified his work in the past in one form or another.

Daniel Carr in fact is the designer of record for the reverse of the New York and Rhode Island US State Quarters. Just between those two, PCGS has certified and graded over 8,500 of Daniel Carr's design creations.

But let's focus on the fantasy strikes.

The most virulent posts seem to be surrounding the sale of these art pieces either now, or in the future, to unwitting buyers as fraudulent rarities.

What better way to prevent that, now AND in the future than to encapsulate these fantasy strikes, attributing them not to the US Mint, but to Daniel Carr / Moonlight Mint for posterity's sake? Saying it is "inappropriate" for a TPG to certify "non currency" items is a bit disingenuous. Ancients, medals, tokens, patterns, bullion, store cards, foreign, domestic, and dare I say "fantasy pieces" have all been certified, graded, and encapsulated by (gasp) PCGS . . . . . . .

https://www.pcgs.com/pop/uscoins

https://www.pcgs.com/pop/detail/misc-medallic-token-fantasy-coinage/157644

If the poster above ^^^ believes that PCGS should be " . . . . instantly ignored (and lose vast amounts of respect) . . . . . " for their work above, then I think there is no firm that meets his current expectations.

In fact, I think it would be a huge SERVICE to the numismatic community if the TPG's would certify something as a counterfeit - a TRUE counterfeit - encapsulate it, photograph it and return it slabbed to the sender.

They would earn their fees, the counterfiet would be identified, cataloged, and marked, and as long as the submitter kept it in the capsule, no one else could be defrauded. There is already a subset of the collecting world that seeks out counterfeits for their collections. This might spur yet another specialty within the community. I would suggest counterfeit capsules be made MORE rugged to discourage jailbreaking without damage potential, but that is a discussion for another thread . . . .

The only "downside" to this MIGHT be encouraging more counterfeiting, which is something I am NOT advocating . . . . . . .

Bottom line. I see the work of @Insider and ANACS in the certification and grading of Daniel Carr's creations nothing less than a service to the community.

Zoid out . . . . . . .