An Argument In Support Of Cleaning Coins

I was at ANA headquarters the other day and a visitor buying some items asked where she could find something to use to clean her coins. The receptionist (who is not a collector) told her that it is not a good idea to clean your coins but the buyer really, really wanted to clean her coins. Seems she wanted to make them shiny. (Wish I had a dollar for every time I heard that.)

The receptionist asked for my opinion. It told the buyer my heart skipped a beat when I heard what she wanted to do to her coins. I explained that cleaning coins can damage the coin's surfaces and destroy their collector value, etc., etc. and pointed her in the direction of a nearby coin shop where she could get professional advice (and buy coin dip if she so desired).

Then I read the following Letter To The Editor in the Dec. 22 issue of Coin World: (Mods edit as required. I am posting the Letter in its entirety because I do not think the letter is copyrighted. My apologies if I am wrong.)

edit - yes, even the letters are copyrighted

I can't wait to see the responces to this letter in future issues.

 

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Yeah - but this does not distinguish between different types of cleaning. A wirebrush versus a quick dip by a profession is vastly different. I personally believe most of the older silver coins have been cleaned at one point or another - that does not subtract from how nice some of them are, especially some that retoned a nice color. I believe the type of cleaning lowers the value, not just saying "cleaning". I think the writer needs to spell out the differences.

 

That is exactly right. That is the key issue.

Some coins have such nasty toning that nothing can make them worse. Yes, I prefer a coin with original surfaces, but if those surfaces are already blackened such that I can't appreciate the coin, the original surfaces are heavily oxidized anyway. They aren't silver anymore... they're silver sulfide. They aren't truly original anymore.

Which is worse - hideous black mottled "original" surfaces or properly cleaned / conserved ? I prefer the latter.

 

If my choice is between a black silver coin, and the same coin cleaned and shiny, I vote for the shiny. How can that be worse than black? The coin will retone eventually.

 

I am very new to this and although I already knew that coins should not be cleaned I accepted that it was for the same reason that silver, bronze, pewter, copper antiques (which I have had a lot of experience of) should not be cleaned... because they grow a 'patina' of their own which demonstrates their age. If all such antiques were cleaned regularly, they would be easy to reproduce as they would appear much more "NEW" than they ought to. Therefore I am for not cleaning them as you cannot reproduce age as easily as you can with a coin that has been cleaned.
Best wishes, Mike.

 

Right-o.

And many coins have a marvelous patina. Some are awful. And of the many in between - when in doubt, leave it alone. I have never cleaned a coin or changed one in any way.

 

Here's the thing...you can clean coins and it does raise their value. The problem is when you improperly clean coins they get damaged.

Look at the analogy used, automobile collectors clean their cars. That's true, I have a classic car and I clean it. But, does the cleaning process damage the surface of the car? No. The way I clean it is safe for the car. When business executives clean and groom themselves are they injured? No, they don't tear big chucks of their skin and hair off in the process...they do it properly.

The problem is, most forms of cleaning damages coins. It puts hairlines in the surface or removes the luster (by removing surface layers). Proper cleaning a coin is just like the proper washing of a car...it's just a lot harder to do.

As far as refurbishing a car, it actually does hurt the value. If you have a classic car that has never been repainted or had any body work...and is 100% original, it's worth a lot more than the same car that has been restored. An unrestored car is MUCH more valuable than a restored one. The problem is, very few cars exist in nice unrestored condition.

In the same way, original unaltered coins are worth substantially more.

 

I would not say it quite that way - just me being picky with words - it makes it sound like you can clean any coin and increase its value. Not true. I think some properly cleaned coins will increase the coins eye appeal which might bring more money. The simple fact that eye appeal differs from one to the next - some like blast white, some like the greys and some like them crusty. So depending on the coin and it being properly cleaned might increase what the seller gets for the coin. Other than me being picky I think you hit the nail on the head.

 

Your right, I was a little strong with my words. But, a lot of people think you just can't do it...and that is incorrect.

 

As a car dealer AND classic car owner, WELL SAID!

I'd say that it's akin to repairs on a modern high dollar car. I deal in higher end used cars on a wholesale level. First, ANY paintwork or bodywork on a late model, high end car CAN be detected and WILL devalue the car, I don't care who did the work. Friend of mine has a Ferrari 430 Spyder, whole left side was expertly repainted. Car is an 06 with 2200 miles, and he can't find anyone to buy it. Scuff the wheels on a curb? Bolt on new ones? No problem. Rock hit the windshield? No worries. Stone smashes a headlamp? Again, no worries.

Some swine keys your fender? Houston, we have a problem.

Even if you are able to wetsand that scratch out, the paint is still affected, no matter what, the car has lost value.

So coins are no different, if there's evidence of alterations done, the coin takes a hit. Now, is an expertly plugged draped bust dollar more saleable and worth more than one with a huge hole in the center of it? Probably. Even if it looks perfect is it worth less than one that was never drilled? Of course.

And will unscrupulous dealers try and pawn that coin off as a nice original? Yep. Do I know slimeball new and used car dealers who representl previously wrecked cars with clean titles and clean carfax reports as "PQ" cars? Yep.

 

This is a nice post and it seems everyone is saying basically the same thing which I agree with. Preservation is the key. Verdigris, corrosion, ugly black toning if it can be removed without removing metal layers of the coin and affecting luster ultimately improves value and furture stability of the metal chemistry of the coin. Wish carbon spots could be removed without harsh cleaning. Don't talk or breathe over your coins!

 

One thing I would point out about your statement is that the dipping process used to remove toning does in fact remove metal layers. The key is to dip it just right so the minimum is removed. If you over dip, you remove too much metal and the surface of the coin is altered to the extent where you lose luster.

 

If you use a 200x microscope to look at the surface of a newly minted coin you'll see what look like mountains and valleys. It's these features that produce what is called Luster. Dipping such a coin will remove the peaks from those mountains and leave you with hills and valleys. You may still have some luster but it won't be as pronounced. Remember, a dip is acid and will eat the metal away. The amount of metal removed is dependent on the time in contact with the dip.

That said, if I have a lower grade coin with heavy toning, I wouldn't hesitate to dip it to remove the tone. By lower grade, I mean F, VF or EF. The coin's already worn so what harm is the cleaning going to do? Anything less than a F grade I wouldn't bother with anyway.

 

Agree with the last three threads- all good points. I have only dipped a few silver coins. Not very inclined to do it. Sent a 1916 S lincoln to NCS and it graded MS 63 RB after conservation. However they removed it, there was a large corrosion spot that was raised above the surface of the coin. I could not have removed it and I am not sure what they did, but it is much better now in my opinion. The coin was definitely darker after conservation. Don't have any before photos, unfortunately. The corrosion or verdigris was near the "N" on the reverse and near "E" in CENT

 

dont flame me but i think the verdigris is still there or the shell is if ther eis such a thing. do me a favor let me know if full verdigris develops on that spot ever again i will be much obliged.

 

can you see the green where the verdigiris used to be or is it just me?

 

I know everybody frowns on cleaned coins, even lightly cleaned. Even myself. But I sort of wish it wasn't that way. If a 1798 coin got cleaned in 1855 and again in 1908 when it wasn't frowned upon, is the coin junk? Well, as long as it doesn't leave noticeable scratch marks, I'd say no. It's still a 1798 coin and I'd be happy to own it.

I mean some of these old coins circulated so much and got beat up,thrown around and worn. Stored in locations with high humidity for decades before AC existed. Then who knows how many people cleaned them? They toned again. Who really knows what they've been through? Then we buy it off ebay and try to figure out how to get it in an IS 2x2 without touching the surface so as not to cause further damage and stash them away in a temp/humidity controlled location.

You can't change the past and the supply of anything is limited and may be becoming more limited as the years go by.

I believe a coin with original surfaces should go for a higher price but maybe something that has been cleaned (not harshly) shouldn't take the hit that they do now?

 

I don't feel this really applies to the coin you describe. Touching the surface of a coin is really only an issue for MS coins. A well circulated coin has been touched many times and as a result light handling won't do anything to harm it. I don't advise handling it roughly, but gentle handling and touching it won't harm a well circulated coin.