What is CAC Actually Saying with the Award of a Bean?

Do you think you know more than professional graders?

Do you think you can grade better than the TPGs?

Do you think you know more than CAC?

Do you think you can grade better than CAC?

Do you think you have more experience than a TPG?

Do you think you have more experience than CAC?

Do you think you know more than JA or have more experience?

 

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So, you are right, this isn't the same thing as packing, (no wait, it is packaging). Well, at least dealers will never pay more for a CAC coin, (no wait). At least individual coin collectors cannot be viewed as consumers who would be affected by consumer behavior, (oh crud, 0 for three).

Eh, @baseball21 said it's not true, so everyone just ignore the man behind the curtain and keep writing those checks to those who do not even sell coins. They have dividends to pay to shareholders for Pete's sake, have a heart!

 

Forget it not worth my time

 

I think I know more about consumer behavior theory than almost anyone here. How many advanced degrees on the subject do you have on THAT? I never claimed to be a better grader, I was stating facts that how CAC is set up effectively demotes all other coins in the eyes of consumers, harming them to CACs benefit. I even stated maybe they didn't mean for this to be an outcome, but it is.

I can grade fine, using my trusty ANA standards. What standards do TPGs hold themselves to? Shareholders? Where are THEIR published standards to be held accountable to? Oh yeah, if they say it's a 63 then it is according to "their grading system", because they REFUSE to actually publish any so as to be able to manipulate them as Wall Street dictates.

Fun conversation.

 

Lol

 

It's a controversial topic as you can see.
Part of the issue is that there is no published guide to tell us CAC standards (nor the TPG standards). At best we can speculate based on what we see in the market (and even that is problematic based on some of the inconsistencies). This leads to a lot of debate.

 

According to JA podcast (based on where they think in grade range) green if A or B coin, C coin no bean. If he feels potential Strong upgrade - gold bean. I urge you to listen to it. The will it CAC thread very educational and well done.

Pricing for CAC coins can be based on the CAC bid in the sheet if any or where seller feels market is for the coin and it’s quality. YMMV. Ultra high grades like 67 the CAC bid can be substantially higher than the non CAC bid hence the sticker game as the CAC coin marked up based on the higher CAC bid. Below 66 or 65 usually not much break away difference, depends on the particular issue. Gold stickered CAC coins a different animal as bidders compete get something they feel will upgrade / submit for higher grade.

The CAC thing has been beaten to death in the PCGS forum and usually ends up closed as members debate (like a stirred up cloud of bees) their various opinions. Posts can get very heated lol. CAC has a free CAC price guide at its site. One can compare and draw his own conclusions. The bottom line is the stickered coin something your willing to invest extra in and does it have the potential to bring the extra money from buyer down the line....

 

An editorial in the August, 2020 CDN Publishing "The CAC Rare Coin Market Review" discusses the increase in value of CAC coins and what appears to be the de-valuation of equivalent grade non-CAC coins. He gives an example of a type coin MS-65 SLQ in both CAC and non-CAC valuations over time and says that in October 2018 they had the same wholesale value but now, the non-CAC coin has dropped 16% while the CAC coin increased 17%. Just one coin and thus not dispositive. The author, John Feigenbaum, states that his firm is starting a project to track 250 to 300 coins to measure their performance over the last few years to "better demonstrate this metric".

Anecdotally, I have noted much the same trend over the last couple of years but I certainly have not collected data to support any conclusion.

Of course, Mr. Feigenbaum is writing for an audience that pays to subscribe to a publication that specifically addresses CAC coins so it would not be unreasonable to suspect a biased viewpoint.

Now, back to my original question, restated differently: Has anyone ever seen a AU-62 (or 61 or 63) coin with a CAC sticker?

 

I may bid the CAC bid in an online auction if it’s not that much over non CAC bid and I feel the coin high potential on its own but if in stratosphere (especially if generic) leave that to somebody else.

 

John Feigenbaum also runs the greysheet (which covers values for CAC and non-CAC coins and doesn't necessarily benefit from promoting one or the other), so I would be fairly confident that we can trust his research (and not worry too much about a bias in terms of CAC vs non-CAC).

As for your question, I unfortunately can't provide much evidence as the series I focus on (toned common date Morgans) doesn't have a ton of AU-62 coins going to CAC. My guess is that it depends on how each coin appeals to JA (and the other CAC evaluators) and if he would be comfortable making an offer to purchase it at 62 price levels.

I would be interested to hear from people who collect Barber or Seated coinage as those seem like areas where we would see more AU-62 coins being reviewed at CAC.