YOLO! I did a deal, now how did I do?

Hello,

Just for those who may not know or follow along, I am the daughter of the advanced collector, Jim, my father who passed in 2001.

I am very inexperienced and don't know much at all about coins still, but you have to get your feet wet and learn some hard lessons along the way, in almost anything.

SO, I went back to the Collectible/Pawn shop where I got a good deal of the Flying Eagle cent.

DESPITE, reading the advice about Trade Dollars, I bought one anyway. #yolo

Here was my thinking:

A) I believe it is genuine because it meet some of the diagnostics available to me, as in the Obv and Rev match. The dentiles are even. The ribbon end is appropriate for the year as well as the arrow angle on the reverse. The font and legends look good- at least to my eye. It is non-magnetic.
It is in a generic slab, so obviously I could not weigh it nor view the edge.

B) I know the China is counterfeiting the slabs as well. That being said, I don't think that they would counterfeit a generic slab that lends no credibility to the coin.
So, the coin still could be fake, and somewhere along the line someone put it in the slab.

C) The shopkeep guaranteed it authentic and will give a refund if not.

I hope that it can grade as an F-15 to VF-20.

I paid $130.

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My other purchase is the 1921 Peace Dollar. I am thinking it is cleaned.

I am hoping it would grade an AU-50 or a bit better.
I paid $125.


Please, any opinions? Thank you all for helping a neophyte.

 

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I know nothing about Trade Dollars.
The 1921 definitely looks cleaned.

 

Nether coin will grade. They both have problems. Too many nice coins out there without problems.

 

What @furryfrog02 said about the 1921.
In my opinion, the TD was also cleaned, but I would await other responses.

Ps. Congrats for really getting into this coin collecting arena. You are obviously reading a lot on the subject. "Keep on truckin"

 

Both seem to be authentic coins to me. Be very careful with trade dollars; they are very heavily faked and some can get pretty realistic. The trade dollar was probably cleaned at one point but the patina of the coin is heavy enough for most grading companies to warrant a straight grade. I give it a VF25.

You are correct in that the peace dollar has been improperly cleaned. I'd say AU details.

You didn't do a bad job though, I think the prices you paid are fair. Good job looking for counterfeit features, the more authentic coins you see the easier it gets to tell fakes.

 

In my opinion, I'd say your trade dollar would merit a VF Details designation.

 

Yeah, the Peace has been cleaned, maybe even polished, but you even said it was cleaned. The TD looks harshly cleaned to me and the three burn dots look strange, I don't know if it will grade. I think you did fine with the TD, the Peace Dollar is a lesson learned. It takes awhile to learn the difference between cleaned coins and not cleaned coins, at least it did for me. Live and learn, that's what we do here!

 

Did you know that 1921 was the only year that the peace dollar was high relief? If you have another Peace dollar, set them side by side and the difference is pretty striking.

 

Yes, I learned that. I do have a 1922 and a 1922-D. I will put them side by side to check it out.

 

Thank you all for your opinions. I am not intending on having these coins graded; but rather, what would their grade be?
I am seeing Ebay listings, both current and completed, that are encouraging that even if these coins are cleaned, they still have value near what I paid for them.

Now, off to learn more about 'how to spot a cleaned coin'!

 

When you find info on how to spot a cleaned coin, please share it with us. I am probably the only one here who can't spot the cleaning on this coin and would like to know the diagnostics.

 

Eye appeal is the key let your father's instinct help in your decisions, believe me it works and a second opinion strengthens that intuition. Let your conscience be your guide best of luck to you.

 

The first place I study is the depressed areas. If they are free of accumulated dirt and grime, it probably has been cleaned. No luster on an otherwise shiny coin tells me that it has been doctored. The same goes for toning. A naturally toned coin should exhibit some luster. I also look for pitting and infinitely small lines.

 

In other words you look for a dirty coin? I would think no dirt or grime on the devices or the fields would be a sign of a nice coin, but i would be suspicious if the fields were clean but the devices had some residual dirt in them. The whole coin would have to be free of any dirt or grime and I see that in the OPs coin. I would also expect a coin of that age to have been cleaned at some point, wouldn't you?

 

Interesting perspective. Waiting to hear.....

 

It’s a subject that is thrashed about frequently here. Personally, I am old school. I like a blast white coin. However blast white coin with no luster makes a coin appear lifeless to me. A coin can be cleaned/conserved by someone that knows what they are doing. I have collected for fifty years and I won’t do it. Shine is not luster..... And I’ll tell you. I too have a high grade 1921 Peace dollar that was cleaned with no luster. I still enjoy the coin due to the depth of the high relief.

 

Many 1921 Peace dollars didn't strike up all that well, due to the high relief, especially on the hair over Liberty's ear. Don't necessarily think that the lack of hairlines there are due to wear. But the coin does look cleaned.

 

And how are you seeing that?

 

I hate to be this guy, but I'm afraid I don't think your trade dollar is genuine. My first thought was the water should come right to her leg on the obverse, but there are some like yours so that doesn't necessarily prove my point. However, the foot is all wrong. It is open wide where it should be more pointed. Also the ankle should be pronounced and on yours it isn't even there. That could be due to wear, though.

Still, looking at her foot would keep me from buying the coin. There are a lot of smarter collectors on here who could tell you I'm wrong, and I hope I am, but that's what I see.

 

I've seen photos of MS 1921s and have actually seen a few, and read articles about them, plus I have a couple of MS- graded Peace dollars (not 1921) that show the hairlines very distinctly versus some MS 1921's I've actually seen.