CAC article- Nov.08 Coinage

Come on Ruben , Richie just asked for some proof , but instead you offer no proof just the same old conspiracy theories and name calling we're friends here let's be reasonable .
rzage

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

You think I was too sharp? This is part two of this conversation.

BRB....

Ruben

 

Checkout CAC's home page. The way I interpret it is - they will grade the graders. In other words, we are not smart enough to determine the coin in the holder meets the grade or not. I agree with that some what - I will not profess to be the experts they might be. What I am is smart enough to determine the coin in the holder is something I like and meets my expectactions of the grade(CAC) or not. It is up to me to determine if I will pay a premium for a coin or not - in a holder, not in a holder, CAC sticker or not.

What CAC is now doing is building a network so dealers can trade in CAC approved coins at the wholesale level. I think it is brilliant what they are doing and people will buy into it. CAC seems to think there are too many "c" type coins in the market place - PCGS/NGC are too busy keeping us customers happy with high grades. My only issue with it is that some dealers sale the CAC sticker to the customer and not the coin. I don't have a problem with them asking premiums, but I determine if I pay it or not. I think Rick Snow has been doing this for IHC's for quite a while.

And just think - with good pictures we have Doug to do it for free.

 

Agree with you on that. Check this auction One Example. LOL - this is a cac approved coin.

Richie what I did see for example was that there were two coins on a dealers web site - the PCGS CAC 64 was about $15 higher that the regular PCGS 64. I thought it was funny cause to me the non-cac coin looked nicer. I went back but the coins are gone - it was on Harlan Berke's web site.

Hey - I just thought of something - Why don't they stamp the cases of the overgraded coins so we know which ones do not meet their standards?

 

Richard.

I've already showed in their own words what they are marketing themselves to do..which is "Increase the Value of Your Coins"

What more evidence do you need?

Ruben

 

See that's the problem with pictures , that coin looks like a scratched AU-55 , but ANACs 6th Edition says for an AU-55 Peace dollar , Most of mint luster is presant , although marred by light bag marks and surface abrasions . So PCGS and CAC think so and have had the coin in hand , could they be wrong sure , but we don't know .
rzage

 

All that shows is what they want people to believe. They say it will raise the value so people send their coins to them. If they said it would lower the value of the coins that no one would send them. I don't care what CAC says. I want to see results.

I could say I'm king of North America. By me saying that...does it make me king?

 

Thats true - I did not look at others, but that looks like it covers the complete surface of the coin. Let me check some others.

 

I buy a lot of coins from Harlans , and believe me they aren't shy about overpricing any coin with or without a CAC sticker or slabbed . they have a huge store on a hihg end hood 3 floors , and at least 8 employees theyhave to pay .
rzage:whistle:

 

But at least it's 'A' view. Without them, you're left with the dealer and yourself guessing. Sometimes it's easy. Other coins may not be so easy.

If you're right on, grading a low end coin and you decide you really want it, you have to appease the dealer and meet in the middle. Then you're over-paying anyway for what may be an inferior coin.

I have a feeling that people may be over-paying some for CAC coins right now just because it's new. As more get labeled and they become much more common, I suspect the premiums would come down from where they'd be now. That is my theory.

 

That is a definition of a scam under these circumstances.

Everything I said 3 hours ago in precise economics and market language continues to be correct. Attempting to cast doubt on the grades of any previously slabbed coins with stickers is FUD. FUD is a tool of scams. Any statements by the con artist that establishes FUD confirms their enterprise as a scam. Further echoing of their FUD in the coin press confirms their enterprise as a scam and as having an affect.

There is no other proof necessary. The are not doing like a TPG where they are grading coins and assigning grades based on their professional assessment. Regardless of how accurate or tight the grading standards CAC can stick their stickers on the previously graded coins and establish doubt in the marketplace and drive a secondary market on that assessment.

Irrelevant. Its not a business claim. Try laying taxes down as King of North America and see if that flies. Aside, it doesn't make your claim less of a scam.

If you want to discuss if CAC is harmless, we can do that in another thread.

Ruben

 

Yep - that is true also. You can see it on some of the other coins also. Last year I purchased plenty, but not so much this year. They just have not had a lot that I wanted. I don't mind the premium if the coin is really something I want. I will say this - all the morgans I bought for my father graded exactly like they said. He sends all his morgans into get them graded.

I went and looked at other auctions - others had the same trait, but no where near as bad. Of course just my opinion on that. I did notice that when I compared it to a few 58's it makes me wonder why someone paid what they did for this coin. Sigh - I still disagree with sticker and grade, but you are right they did have them in hand.

 

In other words, you have no proof.

 

I fully agree. I have no problem with the TPGs or CAC. When I buy a coin, I look at the coin and grade it myself. I then compare it to the grade on the slab (if the coin is slabbed). With a CAC sticker there, it is just one more opinion of the coin's condition. The more opinions the better. But, I don't base my purchase solely on the presence or lack of a sticker...or a slab. I think CAC is particularly helpful with coins online. If I can see the coin in hand, I am confident in my own ability to judge and grade the coin. With pictures, you lose a degree of that confidence. It's nice to have a second opinion (CAC) on the coin's grade to go with the first (the TPG). But, in the end, it's up to the purchaser to decide wither the coin is properly graded and priced.

In the end, I pay what I feel the coin is worth or I don't buy it. The presence of a slab and/or a sticker makes no difference in what I'm willing to pay.

 

Ruben,

You're really, really starting to aggravate me. For some reason you can't get it through your head that the grading companies and CAC are using a grading system. They are grading, to the best of their ability using this system, based on decades of experience, grading coins daily. Nobody claims it is fool proof. But it's the best we have! This is the service you pay for. If these people can't accurately grade, than you, me, nobody should be attempting to grade anything!

I never want to see you give your opinion on a coin's grade again. Because you think people that do this every day for a living can't accurately do it. So of what value is your opinion? Are you trying to tell me that my opinion and your opinion are MORE valuable? You're still allowed to give your opinion even if the coin is in a stickered slab and pass on it if you want. They either sell it to you or they don't. Let somebody else over-pay if you think it's that bad.

This is no different than Beckett grading baseball cards. It's no different than GIA grading a diamond. No single one is going to be exactly the same. People are knowing and willing, to pay individuals who grade for a living every day, for their expert OPINION, and live with that opinion. That's all the claim ever was. Why is this so hard for you to understand? Why are you trying to get more out of it than that? What do you physically expect them to do in order to satisfy your argument?

 

This is exactly what they've come out and said they're trying to do!! They've admitted that this is the point of the program! To separate A and B coins from the C's.

So how is it a scam?

 

Which is all I've been trying to say. Why wouldn't somebody want third party opinions, in addition to your own and a dealer's opinion? NGC and CAC don't stand to make hundreds or thousands of extra dollars off the coin, no matter what the grade is. So it's a third and fourth party verification, non-biased opinion.
As opposed to only having your opinion against the one, single, opinion looking to profit the most from the sale.

 

You were probably right , in that pic the coin sure looked like a dog , wait I shouldn't insult my dog , let's just say we both wouldn't give that coin a 2nd look .:whistle:
rzage

 

no - it means you refuse to accept valid proof and are doing a bait and switch..

If your not going to stay on the point and accept the annotated proof then there is no point to further discussion because your just making up whatever criteria to fit your needs....hhhmmm a lot like Pharmacy Reps actually.

Ruben

 

That always makes me loose sleep.

Did you miss everything I wrote or are you just going to pretend I didn't say it and annotate it.


Let me drop a clue stick on you, although I doubt it will matter...

CAC is a scam...


And here is another.... we aint discussing grading standards, as bad an as invalid as they are...and they are irrelevant to this discussion.


You understand basic logic? A=B B=C A=C?

There is no amount of grading that the TPGs can do which doesn't allow CAC to create a false market with there stickers. They are NOT ethical.

CAC isn't leaving ANY GRADE, or a slab. They are Parasites on the TPG backs, which frankly they deserve because their own grading standards are DUBIOUS, CHANGES, and has no proven validation process leaving the market open scams of people such as CAC.

And why shouldn't CAC scam all you gullible hobbyist. Frankly you refuse to learn anything from more serious fields and the TPGs themselves have exploited similar exploitative aspects of the market especially the 70 grade.

My friend, I aint selling you my grade opinions. And I don't care if you like my grading or not. I don't know why we are discussing this. Its all irrelevant.

Blah blah blah..what does that have to do with the CAC scam? Do you think I can't identify their scam unless I have 30 years of faulty grading practice?

All this is irrelevant to the current discussion.

Ruben