1914 D - Coin Shop Says Fake (?)

My brother paid $35 for what was supposed to be a 1914 D penny in the early 60's (source unknown). It was determined today by a local reputable shop that the D had been added. They spent some time on it with a mag lens and a lup. They finally used a 40X stereoscope. He said, nope...can see braze and chisel marks.

I looked and could not see any witness marks from looking through his dimly lite scope. The time it would have taken to fake a D does not seem likely that the forger would have made anything.

I am attaching a shot taken in macro. Well my upload failed twice after resizing...

I just can't see it being a fake. Has anyone ever seen a D faked very well?

Many Thanks.

 

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Use a site like photobucket (it's free) and attach the photo from there and then the size will not matter. After uploading the photo to Photbucket just click on the area where it says Img (forth box under the photo) and you will copy the img to your clipboard. In your dialog box on cointalk press Ctrl+V and the image link will be pasted into your post on CT.

Ask questions if you have any.

 

Photobucket

I have discriminating software that tells me the photobucket is a known site has some sort of spam or adware virus... I tried a 119k jpg upload again from this sites manage attachment tool and failed twice. I tried copying to clipboard from photoshop, from scrn prt keys and from ms word. In the edit mode I can not paste into my message about the 1914D fake(?). I'd just as soon not disable my machine software so I guess I'll look for a software on download.com that will turn images into img files. Then maybe i can paste into the message. Of course if you have a fix that would be great. I'd really like to share my photos of the 1914 D.

 

I sent you a PM. Please email me the pics and I will post them for you. :thumb:

 

Yes. Added mintmarks are not uncommon. Sometimes the mintmark is removed from a genuine coin (common date) and sometimes the counterfeiter will creat his own mintmark.

There are several things to look for:

Seam between the coin and mintmark.
Evidence of flue, solder, etc.
Scratches, disruption of the coin's surface, etc. in the vicinity of the mintmark.

There are many other things to look for but that is too much for a single post here. If you are reallin interested in learning about this you should take a course or read a good book on detecting counterfeit and altered coins.

 

I hope you can get the pictures posted. But if not, is there another reputable coin dealer where you live where you could get a second opinion?

 

Hobo what book would you recomend for counterfeit detection , I have a couple but they're pretty dated .
rzage

 

A good start is is the PCGS book Official Guide to Coin Grading and Counterfeit Detection.

Next I would recommend a book published by ANA as a home study course by JP Martin. I think the title of the book is Detecting Counterfeit & Altered US Coins. (I can't put my hands on my copy at the moment.) [EDIT - Found it! That is the correct title. The book is over 200 pages and is priced at $29.95 (at least that's the price sticker on my copy).]

Other books that may be helpful are:

Counterfeit Detection Vol. I and Vol. II by ANA. These are reprints from The Numismatist magazine from the days that ANA ran ANA as a certification service. Lots of good photos of what identifes the coins as counterfeit or altered.

Standard Catalog of United States Altered and Counterfeit Coins by Hancock and Spanbauer

Counterfeit , Misstruck and Unofficial US Coins by Taxay

Detecting Counterfeit Coins by Lonesome John

How To Detect Altered & Counterfeit Coins and Paper Money by Harshe

United States Gold Counterfeit Detection Guide by Bill Fivaz - This is a very good book that covers counterfeit gold coins.

 

The 2 volume J.P. Martin is now on DVD as well as a different DVD on Numismatic Forgery by Hoffman and Charles Larson if you like video. I hopw if someone has seen these to post. I have a couple on my "Santa's Santa List" as I have been "Nice"hya:

http://www.brent-krueger.com/video.html

Jim

 

I have the 1st , 3rd and 4th books you listed , and I found a copy of copy 2 from the ANA I'll order that one tonight , thanks .
rzage:thumb:

 

Jim , I'm just wondering how to keep looking something up on video would be a pain , unless it's like a lesson that you watch and can remember . Have you seen the video and would you recommend them ?
rzage

 

I have the JP Martin DVD. I recommend it if you want to learn more about counterfeit detection. It's been a while since I have watched it but if I remember it correctly it includes video clips that show the process of identifying a counterfeit coin that are much better than static photos. Again, the DVD is not for everyone (like the casual collector) but is very good for those that wish to study counterfeit detection. It's not as good as the course that JP and Bob Campbell teach at ANA Summer Seminar but it's a great alternative.

 

Hobo, I appreciate hearing from someone who has watched the DVD. I was going to purchase one to donate to my club in hopes they would like it and buy some others for education time. It looks like counterfeit detection is going to be the bigger skill perhaps than grading if the Chinese still insist it is legal by their laws and bad ethics and greed allow them to flood the US market.

Jim

 

OK, so Lance sent me an email with pics of this coin so I could post it. I am far from an expert with these...so here is the pic:

​

 

A good job of adding a MM !!!

BUT, the shape is a tad off, and look at the tool marks all around the MM. I am only guessing, no more authenticating from pics for me, lol. Also, is that a seam on the top serrif of the D ?

I would not buy it based on those pics tho.

 

uh oh.. I dont like the mintmark. Il have a closer look when I get home, But it just doesn't look right on my phone. definitely a 1914, but the D looks added.

 

I agree - that's a GREAT job of adding a mintmark. Yes, the shape of the mintmark is wrong. And, if my memory serves me, the mintmark should sit in a slight depression on a genuine coin, correct?

 

This is the real one MS-65. If the other one posted is a fake, its a good one. I do notice the upper left serrif on the D protrudes farther left on the top serrif than the bottom on the actual coin. The upper and lower serrif's of the D on the coin in question are equal, however it is worn.

 

Notice the trianguler inside of the D on the genuine.

There was only ONE punch used on the mm's in 1914, and ALL genuine's should have the same shape. It gets tougher as they wear.

Yes, thats a very good job, and a good eye that spotted it.

And Harry, that coins looks better than 65, I must wonder what the reverse looks like !!

 

Harry,

Look at the shape of the inside of the 'D' on both coins. On yours it is triangular. On the other it is rectangular.