Kingly coin, but 'which' king?

After a serious amount of head scratching (no not fleas!), I admit defeat in identifying this short cross penny. Well, I know it's London mint, no idea as to the moneyer's name as some letters are pretty worn. In fact it looks almost as if some silver has melted, maybe from the days of yore when they burned the stubble? I just can't work out which king it is, Henry II, Richard, John or Henry III !
You're help is very much appreciated, so thank you in advance!
I also found a cut short cross penny not far from this one, it will be following shortly!

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

I can't help you since i know nothing about these coins. Just wanted to say that it is a cool find

 

Aimer on Lund?

 

Cheers for that, it's certainly uplifting when you do find em !

 

Unfortunately where I live, the best "find" would be some rusty nails and rebar.

 

Now that looks like it would fit, thanks for that

 

Well I do have fields where all I leave with are ringing ears from constant barking dogs

 

Not unlike this one: https://bsjauctions.com/21061707-lo...ype=&sort_by=lot_number&view=lot_detail&year=

 

John Conduitt's candidate for the moneyer made perfect sense. I've corresponded with Brits who could nail this by class in no time; but on the basis of the portrait style, it 'smelled' more Richard I than Henry II ...and for the London mint, Aimer had retired by the reign of John. So here's my first guess. Somewhere in the range of Class 3-4A, both Richard I.
All I looked at so far was the 2015 edition of Spink. From there (in terms of detail, not chronology) North and Stewartby go increasingly into the weeds with the details of class, but Spink is Darn Good for relatively quick identification.

 

...This is what I would've said without the benefit of some serious experts, over the years, on classes generally and short crosses in particular. It's about things like the number of curls on each side of the head. But you nailed the moneyer!

 

I think Richard I is correct, as best I can make out from North (North *968/1, class 4a). I know someone here is a better book specifically in identifying these (@TheRed?). I agree with Aimer as the moneyer.

 

No, North is verrrry good, but Stewartby, English Coins: 1180-1551 (Spink 2009) is only better. ...Gimme a minnit, and I'll check it.

 

I’ve never used/read Stewartby. But the book I was thinking of was The Short-Cross Coinage by Christopher R. Wren

 

Sorry yes I meant the reverse - the legend seems to fit very well. On the obverse the crown isn't right.

 

...Okay, Stewartby seems to confirm 4A, mainly (beyond North and the generic Spink catalogue) on the basis of letter forms and punctuation. His classes 4B and 4C both have variants that 4A doesn't (pp. (35-) 36 and figure). ...North further dates the class, with all subclasses, to c. 1194-1204/5; p. 220), but 4A is unamimously attributed to Richard.
Stewartby's opening remarks on Class IV are fun, if you enjoy the kind of aesthetic gallows humor to which medieval collectors are subject --whether as initiators, or as the butt.
"Class IV.
"The coins of class IV, which constitute the issues of most of the reign of Richard I and the first five years of John's, have a strong claim to be regarded as the ugliest ever produced under the authority of the English crown" (pp. 32-3).
He goes into more detail, about how, at the level of engraving, the portraits and legends sharply deterioriate, relative to the initial issues of Henry II. But that much is quotable!

 

Don't know that one. Have to look it up.

 

The penny is an awesome find @clanger. Thanks for the vote of confidence @FitzNigel. I would agree with those that have put forward class 4a. The coin has the small non-pelleted curls for hair of class 1 thru 5a1, the beard of pellets that was only from class 4, and a crown of 7 pellets, also a feature of class 4. Also, as others have noted, the moneyer appears to be Aimer.

The Wren book is great for basic identification and the price is hard to beat. The most in depth book to cover short cross pennies is the SCBI volume on the coinage by J.P. Mass. He was the undisputed expert of short cross pennies. That said, the book sells for $250 or more these days and is hard to track down.

 

Many thanks for this, TheRed. Next thing I have to do is look it up. ...Starting with the date of publication.

 

I'll take a butchers, thanks!

 

Fantastic! Cheers for this info. I've got Norths book but I just get more muddled looking at the different types, end up deciding it looks like none of em! Hence I turn to the experts, you guys!