CAC ? 1 more way to make you pay more?

Ruben,

I don't understand what that post means, please elaborate!

 

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Ruben , what does a counterfeit roll of CAC stickers have to do with calling the real tpg and CAC a scam , the fake roll was a scam .
rzage

 

I will admit that I don't follow the auctions that closely...but I personally wouldn't believe the prices would raise at all. A coin slabbed at MS66 (assuming it's correctly graded and has good photographs) should bring MS66 money with or without the CAC sticker. The buyer might have a little more faith that the coin is worth MS66 money...but if it truly is MS66 it will bring that value. I know your nickel had the sticker and that made you feel more comfortable in purchasing the coin...but if appropriate photos of that coin had been taken, wouldn't you have been comfortable anyway?

I have no problem with CAC at all...but with proper photos and a knowledgeable buyer, I don't know if they are really needed. Of course, that's a perfect scenario.

Plus, on the bright side...at least the sticker is reflective and pretty. I mean, they could have made it hideous. So, it could be worse.

 

I hear what you are saying Richie but I always wonder even when looking at the very best photos. Was this photo taken in such a way that it represents the actual appearance of the coin or the appearance that will make it easier to sell. IMO, it is just impossible to expect to be able to consistently accurately grade coins from photos. But when you have a TPG opinion, a CAC opinion, and a great photo that allows you to critique the first two opinions, how can you go wrong?

 

The reason it might raise the price because the CAC sticker doesn't mean it's graded right , it means CAC splits the grade into three , low for the grade , average for the grade and , high for the grade , CAC says their sticker said it's in the top 2 .
rzage:hatch::hammer:

 

I agree that a little more insurance is nice...but I guess what I'm wondering is does that affect how much you are willing to pay for the coin?

Here's an example. You have a coin that in MS66 typically goes for $2000 and that's what you would pay for the coin. It is slabbed by NGC. Based on the pictures (that may have been taken in a way to make the coin appear better than it actually is...you don't know) the grade appears to be correct. The coin has the nice eye appeal that you would expect for a coin graded a MS66 but appears to not be an MS67 in a 66 slab. Now, you may be more comfortable paying $2000 for the coin with the CAC sticker on it...but does it make you willing to pay a greater premium for the coin if you really want it?

I would personally rely on my own instincts with the coin. Having CAC there is nice, but doesn't tip the boat for me one way or the other.

 

I have not read the entire thread yet, so I'm out on a limb.

Before we comment on the stickers, how many of you actually see 100's or 1000's of coins a week in slabs, raw and stickered, and have taken the time to compare?

Now, that said........


I have only handeled a few CAC coins. They were premium for the grade , solid and with eye appeal to boot. We all have seen PCGS/NGC doggies, believe me, they are out there. You wont find one with a sticker.

For those that rely on the TPG's, this is another added layer of protection. Investors mainly, or those without the time to actually learn how to grade. More money than skill or interest.

Those with a keen eye can ignore them. Those without can use them as a tool.

Do they sell for extra?

YES.

Why? Because they are premium coins. ANY coin that is premium will trade above sheet. Remember , sheet is for AVERAGE coins. Any coin that is a knockout, or a real " looker " will always trade above wholesale, whether it has a sticker or not.

Sometimes you have to throw the sheet away and buy the coin regardless of the " list price".

If a coin is overpriced in your opinion, pass on it and order one from the redbook or the greysheet at the prices they list for average coins. Give that a try and post your results here.

Average hurts more when selling than when buying, always remember that.

 

That was kind of the point I was trying to make. If you have a coin that has extra nice eye appeal for the grade and doesn't have a sticker...it is still worth the premium it would have if it had the sticker, because it is a premium coin. The coin in the holder (and under the sticker) creates the premium, not the sticker.

That being said, again...I have no problem with the sticker what so ever.

 

IMO, the CAC's real market should be the conditional rarities. If you have a coin that is valued at $500 in MS65 and $375 in MS64, the CAC sticker is not that valuable because the total price difference between the grades is only $125. But if you have a coin like the 1934-D Peace Dollar that jumps in price by 3X from MS64 to MS65, that MS65 1934-D Peace Dollar would benefit greatly from the CAC sticker.

If I had any conditional rarity, I would submit the coin the CAC for review. Of the last 5 1934-D MS65 Peace Dollars sold by Heritage, the top price was $2,185 and the low was $1,121 with wholesale price at $1,775. That is huge volatility created by the fact that the conditional rarity of the issue creates the need for a half grade. The CAC basically provides you with the half grade. Those 1934-D gem Peace Dollars with a CAC should bring the $1,800 price tag whereas those without should be relegated to a lower price in between the $600 MS64 price and the $1,800 MS65 price.

I see absolutely no reason to send any coin valued at under $500 to the CAC. The loss from a misgrade is just too low to justify the extra cost of getting the CAC's review on the coin.

 

Ditto

That's exactly the point that I made in thread 25 , that the CAC sticker doesn't raise the price , the coin deserving of the CAC sticker makes the price .
rzage

 

AJ,

This is one of the best posts I have seen on this forum. I agree 100% with everything in this post. If collectors approached coin collecting with these principles in mind, they would be much better off. Thanks for a fantastic post. :whistle:

 

Thanks Lehigh, it's pretty much just the real world, I have seen it and I have learned.

EDIT:
I am NOT saying the market is not manipulated, I am just saying what I see. A while back, Peace dollars bids were run up on the " CAC" condition. Watch for this, but thats dealer talk beyond most of our levels.

As a collector, just learn what it is you are buying.

 

I don't think it is possible to make that statement. You might hope so, but the CAC sticker will, by itself, as it is designed to, raise the price of coins with the sticker...driven largely buy a few wealthy nut cases.

Ruben

 

there both scams, the CAC and the stickers.

Ruben

 

The most useful thing it will do is motivate the TPG's to steal the CAC market share with tighter grading and fractional grading.


Ruben

PS 4300 club...

 

But they are going to have to. As the TPGs change the definition of a particular grade (which they have been doing) the definition of a "premium coin" for that grade will change as well. If they didn't, suddenly there would be no coins that meet their standard for that "premium" in a particular grade and thus they would have no business.

 

Well, on this coin CAC has guaranteed it is full head.

Ruben

 

Then whats the point of the sticker? If it's the coin thats raising the bar, how many more stickers and shakes of the heads of others with opinions are needed to say, yeah, the coin is cherry? It's robbing Peter to pay Paul, nothing more, and someone has to pay additionally to have that sticker affixed to the slab, and I guarantee that additional cost is being passed on to every sequential buyer.
Guy~

 

A lot of coins are bought over the internet. A photo on the internet only tells you so much. Also they will be good on the sight unseen market.