Featured Advanced Coin Photography

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by Denis Richard, Jul 3, 2020.

  1. jafo50

    jafo50 Active Member

    @Denis You certainly have some skills and I really enjoy looking at your work.
     
    RonSanderson and Denis Richard like this.
  2. Avatar

    Guest User Guest



    to hide this ad.
  3. Denis Richard

    Denis Richard Well-Known Member

    An example of a dark coin on a dark background. It can be tricky to capture and bring out detail in the darks, but the important thing is to capture them when shooting. This is when exposing to the right is helpful. Exposing to the right, or ETTR, is an approach to photography that is as helpful as it is controversial. On one hand, it can potentially ruin your exposure if utilized incorrectly. On the other hand, with proper ETTR, your images have as much detail in the shadows as they possibly can, without any of the highlights losing information along the way. This image has detail in all the shadows. If your image has too large a contrast range, than HDR with luminosity masks is recommended, however that is rare with coin photography.

    Iron Time.jpg

    Here is the full size jpg file.

    Iron Time detail.jpg

    Check out ETTR if you're interested.
     
    ZoidMeister, Dynoking and brg5658 like this.
  4. brg5658

    brg5658 Well-Known Member

    Firstly, let me say, @Denis Richard your photos are superb. And I love the subsequent processing of the coin images into whimsical backgrounds, etc -- for use in advertising or catalogs or calendars.

    But, my point was the distinction between where "photography" ends, and software processing begins. "Artistic, whimsical" is the application of software processing in the examples I have seen. Nothing to do with photography.
     
  5. brg5658

    brg5658 Well-Known Member

    Here are a few examples of photos where I have included edge markings in the composite images.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  6. rmpsrpms

    rmpsrpms Lincoln Maniac

    I'm in full agreement with Brandon @brg5658. The images being shown by @Denis Richard are impressive, but they are artistic renderings, not photography. There are many techniques available to the photographer to render images in an artistic fashion. But what is generally prized in coin photography is the "in-hand look", ie how the coin looks in-hand with commonly available lighting. This is what Brandon has shown in his images. I was hoping "Advanced Coin Photography" would refer to ways to improve our photographs to achieve that "in-hand look".

    Indeed I also go down the path of "artistic rendering" with my 3D photography (see some examples here: http://www.macrocoins.com/oddities-in-3d.html), and partially down that path with my high resolution photography for variety imaging (see some examples here: https://easyzoom.com/manage/images) so I really have nothing to complain about, but my renderings are for particular purposes of variety identification, not just to be pretty. That's not saying "just being pretty" isn't a good thing, as indeed I have enjoyed the coin art in this thread, just that it needs to be put in its proper perspective.
     
    goossen, brg5658 and jafo50 like this.
  7. Denis Richard

    Denis Richard Well-Known Member

    Quality coin photography, for any application, starts with a good coin image. Here's a standard catalogue shot of a shiny 1 oz silver coin I took recently. It sounds like catalogue shots are what is being considered proper coin photography here. There's absolutely nothing artistic about the image below.
    tSc Source-267.jpg
    This is how the same image was used on the Shopping Channel, along with my additional packaging shots. Nothing fancy. Just a quality image showing the product.

    atbsrtn.JPG

    ..and this is how I chose to present the same image(s) on my Instagram feed.

    July 8 2020-All.jpg

    Same image, but dressed up for a different application, because the first two images are, IMO, boring. Brandon's shots are great catalogue images, no doubt, and I do those shots every day, but why stop there? How else can coin images be used? They are art in and of themselves and I like to show them in that environment. That's what this thread is about.
     
    ZoidMeister and RonSanderson like this.
  8. Razz

    Razz Critical Thinker

    I think that ultra moderns are fairly boring subjects to begin with. I like coins with a bit of character. Polish_20200722_200626680.jpg
    I know I should post process this a little more. But sometimes less is more...
     
    Denis Richard likes this.
  9. Razz

    Razz Critical Thinker

  10. rmpsrpms

    rmpsrpms Lincoln Maniac

    Those are nice presentations of the photographs of the coin, and I would not call those renderings nor art. The overall presentation may be considered art I suppose. The images I was referring to as renderings are the ones where the photograph is heavily manipulated in such a way that it no longer looks like the coin. Emphasizing certain features, or adding other details not present on the coin are examples from this thread.

    I'm a guy who does not like to watch any movies made after 2008 or so, and only selective movies made after 2000, due to the high content of CG, so you know where I am coming from.
     
    Denis Richard likes this.
  11. Denis Richard

    Denis Richard Well-Known Member

    From a photographic perspective, this 2015 Perth Mint coin runs the gamut of surface finishes, from full colour print to mirror. I’ve heard many complaints about shooting proof coins and this coin is a challenge to photograph. The field and legend have a satin finish while the relief has a course frost on the mountains, and a fine frost on the foreground and rim. The foreground soldier, in full colour print, follows other soldiers, in mirror finish, as they battle to scale the cliffs above Anzac Cove. Zoom in on it to see the finish differences.

    2015 Anzac-Brave.jpg

    Has anyone else photographed this coin? I'd like to compare images. I couldn't find any other photographs of it online.

    The shot above is one exposure, shot at f14, 1/200 sec at ISO 100. Rotated axial lighting provides the control to preciously direct and feather the light across the satin field. I feel the direction of the light source plays a big part in the success of this image. A single light, positioned at about 11 o’clock*, with a diffuser placed halfway between the light and the coin**, provides natural looking overhead light for an outdoor scene. All of the shadows are downward and consistent. I feel this coin would look quite different with several light sources creating shadows and highlights in conflicting directions.

    Below is the Perth Mint promotional 3D model rendered version of the same coin. Not particularly impressive. A quick internet search shows almost everyone selling this coin set online are using these Perth renderings in their posts.

    anzac-bravest.jpg


    On a related note, while writing this today I discovered my image of this coin, and all my images from the 2014 and 2015 collections of this series I took, were used on the Numista website for these coins. They were screen shot from the site I shot the coins for, and the drop shadows removed. The bigger issue is Numista incorrectly copyright attributed them to the Perth Mint, when they were just were used without permission.

    Anzac Brave.JPG

    A quick check of the Perth Mint site and you see these are not their images, and they are prompting the product with the rendering I show above. A further check and you can easily find where these images actually came from. I updated this item's copyright info on Numista this morning- waiting for approval of the changes.


    *Note: I don’t change the location of my lights. The light is always at a 90 deg angle to my camera and I rotate the coin and the glass plate so the light falls where I want it to. Some coins, light a right facing bust, will be almost upside down in the view finder when I’m shooting to get the catch light in the eyes where I want it. I cut it out and rotate it in post for the finished image.

    **The location of the diffuser, closer or father to the coin, makes a big difference in the contrast of the light on the coin. Your diffuser should be positional, not just placed directly in front of the lights.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2020
    expat likes this.
  12. Jo Wo

    Jo Wo Member

    Thanks for all your comments guys on this thread, really useful insights to be found here. Just thought I'd share this fantastic video I came across today:
     
    Jaelus, Denis Richard and Dynoking like this.
  13. Dynoking

    Dynoking Well-Known Member

    Because they are using your image without your permission to make money you are entitled to compensation.
     
    Denis Richard likes this.
  14. Denis Richard

    Denis Richard Well-Known Member

    No worries.. Numista have since provide the proper accreditation to the images.
     
    Dynoking likes this.
  15. brg5658

    brg5658 Well-Known Member

    "Protected use" litigation for images posted on the internet only enriches lawyers. While, yes theoretically, the image should always be used with permission - the amount of time, energy, and money it would require to enforce such laws almost always precludes anything happening.

    Corporations can enforce such laws because they have legal teams and $$$ - individuals rarely can afford to. If you post images online that you don't want used by others, either watermark them or post very small versions with contact information for how a larger version can be used with permission/remuneration.

    Complaining and lamenting on a discussion forum will get you no where.

    :cigar:
     
    Denis Richard likes this.
  16. Treasure Dave

    Treasure Dave New Member

    Your photos are great and your setup looks awesome as well. I need to play around with my setup. I have some lights but they are more so for larger objects not so much for coins so I need to rethink some things. But appreciate you sharing.
     
    Denis Richard likes this.
  17. Jo Wo

    Jo Wo Member

    I found this thread a few weeks ago and have been tinkering since then. Finally getting some results after having a 100mm arrive in the post today!
    Here's my best so far, still lots to improve... :)

    [​IMG]
     
    Denis Richard and RonSanderson like this.
  18. Jo Wo

    Jo Wo Member

    Oh here's a little video of my setup. It's super bodged together right now haha

     
    Tamaracian and Denis Richard like this.
  19. Jo Wo

    Jo Wo Member

    Just had another go:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Love this axial lighting setup!
     
    Denis Richard likes this.
  20. messydesk

    messydesk Well-Known Member

    I'm surprised I just ran across this thread today. Lots of interesting points made here. With no big shows since FUN, my professional coin photography biz has screeched to a halt. The only shots I've taken lately have been my own. I'll comment on a bunch of stuff I've seen here all at once.

    My setup is a Nikon D610, usually with a 200 mm macro, sometimes with a 105 mm (larger objects and slabs), or even a 55 mm macro (much larger objects). Since almost everything I shoot is slabbed, axial lighting is not useful for me. The closest I've come to something like it is my makeshift white paper shroud crammed onto the end of my lens with the lights pointed at it. The built-in lens hood of the 105/4 Micro-Nikkor keeps that lens from flaring, and the 200/4 just doesn't flare.

    Regarding whether or not post-processing is not photography, so what? If you have an end-product in mind that's not possible to capture with the camera, post-processing is just another tool in the chain that is used to produced your finished product. You still have to start out with the best picture you can get out of your camera to be able to work with it better. "Juicing" a picture is often cited as an example of bad post-processing. It's bad for two reasons -- you can tell it's too much, and it doesn't look like the coin. Of course, you can "juice" a picture without post-processing by setting the saturation too high on your camera. Same result, different toolset. Do I do off-camera exposure, highlight, shadow, and saturation adjustment? Absolutely! Can you tell where I did it? Probably not. Does it look like the coin? Yes. All of this is just as much part of photography as burning, dodging, adjusting development times or chemistry were back in the day.

    One of your biggest friends when taking and processing photos is the histogram. It clearly shows you how much data you're losing in shadows and highlights, what can be recovered later, and to what extent you can mess with exposure in post-processing.

    Black backgrounds are what I prefer, but I can see white backgrounds working better in web pages that have a predominantly white background, such as eBay. I've thought of using a transluscent stage with a sub-stage colored light to create masks for automating cutting out coins that aren't perfectly round, but it doesn't seem worth it to me at this time. If someone came to me with a box of hammered coins, I'd probably think differently, but nobody's coming to me with anything right now, so I'm not really motivated to do it.

    Finally (for this post), don't underestimate the importance of a good monitor. Color calibrated, 99+% sRGB gamut is what you want. Inexpensive laptop display? Low color gamut, hard to calibrate effectively, even with a color calibration tool. Phone? Not sure you can calibrate these at all. "I have a Mac, therefore it's perfect?" Nope. Just got a good deal on a 4K HDR display for $300 and it looks great? Probably not. If you are serious about using a good monitor, buy one based on customer reviews at B&H Photo, not Amazon or Best Buy. If you want to calibrate your monitor, use a calibration tool, and not your eyes, which will adjust to whatever color cast you throw at them over time.
     
  21. Denis Richard

    Denis Richard Well-Known Member

    All great points.. I've love to see some images to go with them. Can you post a few?

    FYI, you can use axial lighting for slabbed coins, just not in a static position. Dynamic axial lighting is quite versatile and I've used it many times on slabs, though I'm the first to admit it is not my "go to" method for slabbed coins.
     
Draft saved Draft deleted

Share This Page