Well friends today I received a taste of greed from my grading company of choice, PCGS! I was planning on a registery set for the NY collection, however, I have changed my mind! I will no longer try to attempt this through that entity and will not renew my membership there! I am seeking out another compamy, Perhaps PMG to do this! PCGS has put a bad taste in my mouth as a greedy, self serving biased company! If you are not well known there your service is lousy, the grading is less than accurate and of course if you do not pay top dollar you do not get the grade you should receive! I am regretful for thinking differently about them and now on the hunt for another provider. Any experience you may have will surly be welcomed! This does not mean that I will not purchase graded notes by them in the future, it simpily means I will not send in any notes to them in the future! Regards, RickieB
RickieB; You are your best grader and authenticator, you are empowered to make these decisions for yourself and not have to pay someone in some Floridian sweatshop to do it for you. I have TPG'd notes, but they do nothing for me in the holders, if anything they are a pita because I cannot image them as easily as the non TPG'd notes. I know I am in the minority regarding TPG's, but to me they are basically useless. They serve to charge egregious sums of dosh to tell you whether you should like a coin or banknote or not. Maybe I sound elitist, but I can determine whether I like something or not by myself.
Count me in as part of that minority. I imagine it will grow in size, in time. Registry sets are a double ripoff... first they convince you that only their high graded coins (or notes, in this case) are worth of recognition in the first place, then they charge you a membership fee to get that recognition. It's bad enough that the TPGs have polluted coin collecting. Don't let them ruin banknote collecting too. Just say no!
If you have to have them in slabs Rickie then do them yourself, I reckon that you have as much idea if not more than they do about the condition of your collection :hug:
Very eloquently said. I personally love the idea of registry sets. Heck, you get to show off your collection! But in practice, its not as good...
I think those of us that dislike the TPG's are actually in the majority for now. But as people are swayed by the so-called "Gaurantee", these TPG's will become more and more accepted for paper money. Myself, I don't want it if I can't have it out of the plastic. There's a disconnect I feel to seeing things through the plastic only, and not being abel to touch teh actual product. I may only do it once, but I always have the ability to if I want to or need to. I full yagree that these only drive up the price of banknote collecting by a minimum of the amount of the cost to have it appraised. This is why I don't purchase notes that have been graded ... at least for now anyways. If you're going to do this for investment purposes, then there is that line of thinking that would make it more attractive to have them graded by a TPG. But they are a company that is in existence to make money off your desire to grade your money. To that end, TPG's will all have a degree of self serving attitudes from time to time. Good luck finding one that better suits your needs. As far as PMG, I have heard decent things about them as far as a TPG goes.
Well said! The TPGs serve an absolute purpose, but it is not for collectors. This opinion is most definitely in the absolute minority, and many seasoned and veteran numismatists will claim that TPGs "help" the "newbies", but I find that to be absolutely untrue. A collector collects. An investor invests. A speculator speculates. What a collector collects is what appeals to the collector. What an investor invests in is what will return or, at the least, hold its value against inflation. What a speculator speculates toward is a pure short term turn around for profit. TPGs are only good for the latter two instances. A TPG will never be able to tell a collector what the collector likes. The arguments of marketibility, value, ease of turn-around, and posterity are all arguments of the investor, not the collector. Collecting is for the here and now, and all about what one likes. TPGs have no place in collecting.
That is a pretty bold statement and quite frankly a pretty naive one to make - I would have to wholeheartadly disagree with you. If you for some reason you think you have been treated unfairly then you should contact Laura or Jason and (in my experience) they will do what they can to make your situation correct. Their customer service is top notch. I am authorized dealer for PCGS and PMG and have only sent 6 or 7 submissions to PCGS, I am not well known to them nor have I spent lots of money with them, all of my grades have come back accurately, maybe a bit conservative, but you know that's what your getting when you submit them. No disrespect intended, but I highly doubt that PCGS chooses favorites. Just my 2cents. Jim
One thing that I believe many people forget is a very simple truth: Every TPG is an incorporated State entity. As such, they are required to look after the desires and expectations of their investors - that is, their stock holders. Now, as most know, the purpose of purchasing stock is to bring value to a company in the hopes of returning on the investment. Now, if the company does not profit, the investors will see a loss (stock prices drop). If the TPG makes a profit, then when their quarterly reports are submitted, the public will see such profits, placing a greater trust in the company's ability to make money, and the stocks should rise, thus making the expected profit. If the corporation does not meet the investor expectations for profit, then they have failed and could face legal consequences from the stockholders. Customers are simply a necessary evil/burden to accomplish the corporation's intended purpose - to make a profit. Thus, you will have internal (some official, some not) policies and procedures that will maximize these chances to profit. Some customers have to be on the opposite end of the stick. Those are usually the ones with the minimal/smaller amount of business. In the case of the TPGs, we're talking the occasional submitter. The mass submitters, such as nationwide dealers, however, will be catered to and given "special" treatment. It's all a part of business. These are corporations we're talking about, not privately owned companies. Morals, ethics, and a desire for the customer and the industry have absolutely no sway in a corporation beyond how it could possibly raise the profit margin. It's unfortunate, but it's the way business works. Now, when dealing with a non-State entity such as a partnership or individual proprietor, the rules change drastically. The most obvious example of this that many of us see are like the difference between eBay and, let's say, Coinbug. In the same way, there is a vast difference between dealing with a TPG and your local coin shop. You can more easily gain a relationship of trust and mutual benefit with your local coin dealer buying RAW coins, than you could ever hope to hae with a TPG. Unfortunately, I believe you will find similar favoritisms elsewhere. Of course you should always buy what appeals to you! Whether it's raw or graded. And like I said before, TPGs do have their place in the industry, just not for collectors. If you intend to use any of your collection at some later date, then a TPG may be a good answer before selling, but only if it will truly maximize the return. There are many aspects to consider when doing so, but when collecting, only collect what you like, not what plastic it's in.
Jim, No disrespect taken.... However, I am not a newby! I have collected high grade coins for years and years and 2.8 years ago got into high graded notes. I am not a professional grader by any means but I am not stupid either! What I did not say in the original post was that I called them last week wondering what had happened to the notes I sent in over 60 days ago and was told they had been busy and only 1 person had looked at them. Well 2 days later I get the grade report. The notes in question are beautiful notes without any creases, folds, bad corners wavy paper, excessive handling marks. These notes I cherry picked from top dealers in this country. These notes I am speaking of are not in the grading ranges that were assigned to them. It is my plan to re-submit to PMG as one of my dealer friends was astonished at what I discussed with him. If I were new to this then I would say some judgement on my part may be in question, but I do not think so! Navagate to the banknote bank site link and look at my collection by date. Look for the Series 1914 Blue Seal $20 Burke/MacAdoo...I know looking at scans is tricky but believe me when I say they are no distractions on this note to match the grade assigned to it. RickieB
Rickie, did you use their monthly special? I have waited over two months for notes submitted in their monthly special as well. They have clearly stated on the CU forum that these notes are last on their list in order of grading as other people have paid higher prices for faster service. I wasn't debating your knowledge or expertise in any way, please forgive me if it sounded that way. edited to add: Great collection by the way, a lot of beautiful notes. http://www.banknotebank.com/notes/911123A.jpg was the note you said to look at, what did it come back as?
Yes, that is the note! It came back as an AU53..that note is near Gem! embossing galore all over it..the only distraction is the ink smear on the bottom right! No counting marks, folds, edge damage nothing!! The $20 Gold note came back as XF45 and that note is an AU note! A few others as well...however, 13 of the notes I sent in got the PPQ rating! I know that these notes are better than what they came back as! Please do not take me wrong, I am not crying to just be crying..I buy expensive notes and I know if one has a crease or fold in it! These notes do not..looking at them at 60x with a microscope, you can not miss a seam, fold split, wave or nothing! RickieB
Hello Peter, I am not sure. I am planning on cutting them out and sending them to PMG to see if there is any difference. Reagrds, RickieB
RickieB - Sorry to hear that things didn't go well. I know you were really looking forward to having that set listed. Please keep us updated on how the grading goes at PMG. For me, I agree with the comments about the type of customers that the TPG's help achieve a specific purpose and I don't think that is the collector. TPG's obviously have a place in the hobby I just don't think pure collectors need them very often. If you are buying high end notes - two things come to mind: 1. Deal with reputable dealers 2. Be educated enough to grade and authenticate yourself I believe you live by those two rules so in my mind the plastic is not necessary as you do not plan on selling them. I do understand the desire to do it but given my financial position I just could never justify it. Good luck my friend!!! Darryl
