Two Ounce Bronze Barrel Weight - is the inscription V or C

A recent purchase is a 2 ounce bronze weight with an inscription. The inscription is either V or C. I suspect the weight had other letters, but environmental damage, over cleaning and a layer of laquer added after cleaning keeps me from seeing more.

Roman two ounce bronze commercial weight with some of the original silver inlay. The size is correct for a 2 ounce weight (52.0 g; 22.9 X 17.1 mm). I can see what looks like a V. The rest of the inscription, if there was one, is missing. Based on the weights shown below, I would expect a legend that includes 2 to 4 of the letters: VNCIA (VN, VNCI, etc.) and a Roman number 2 – II.

The seller calls the inscription a C. Bruno Kisch in Scales and Weights, describes weights from the Temple of Castor in Rome. The temple housed sets of standard weights. They had inscriptions: CASTO, CAST, CAS, CA, etc. I have not found any pictures of a weight with C... on line. The letter on my weight could be a C, but it looks more like a V to me.

The pictures below were taken with different cameras and light sources in an attempt to see an inscription. I could not see any more in hand with a loop.



VN / II, two ounce weight from British Museum


VNCI / III - 3 ounce and V ??? - 2 ounce weights


VNCIA S / VI - 6 ounce (Semis) weight


The scale weight came with a 2 dot aes grave (52.7 grams). The weights are similar.

 

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Thanks for posting this – fascinating stuff!

First to your own weight – as you say – hard to be sure but from the pic I would agree with you – probably V for uncia (and maybe(?) II for two)

Regarding the the reference to the Temple of Castor from your seller – well I do not think it is correct for your own weight – but it opens up a fascinating back story – (some might say a ‘can of worms’).

Apparently Kisch mentions Castor weights in passing on page 150 of his book – but I do not have a copy. Can anyone assist?

Hunting around on line however I find that back in 1929 James Frazer, in his five-volume edition of Ovid's Fasti (Fastorum libri sex p 268), claims there are lots of weights citing the standard of the temple of Castor…...

At first sight one might think Frazer was nuts – since hardly anyone else says this anywhere on the web – and likewise - your comment here is almost true

However – hunting further I found Christies auction of 26 April 2012 lot 332 included a Roman cup weight with the inscription “EX A S CAS”

Using that as a platform I went on to find these web pages

https://www.trismegistos.org/abb/abbreflist.php?combin_id=14028

https://www.trismegistos.org/abb/detail.php?id=14216

If you open the top one and then follow links for the last two entries on the list you get to pictures – and they show two more inscribed cup weights…….

So - perhaps even the second web page is all to do with a whole lot more weights?

Where does that get us? It starts to look like there might well really be quite a lot of weights citing the temple of Castor.

We come across these in passing in the work of Frazer, a guy fascinated with pagan religions.

In Kisch, an amateur enthusiast.

In auction catalogues - if they happen to come up for sale.

In the work of a group of people fascinated by Ancient abbreviations – (but with no interest in weight standards what so ever).

Not a single professional archaeologist has ever mentioned this rather interesting matter, as far as I can tell.

Can anyone correct me on that?

Rob T

 

Mes excuses à amis en France

https://artefacts.mom.fr/de/libraries/tcpdf/examples/essai6.php?id=PDS-4421

and Germany

https://www.zobodat.at/pdf/JOM_149a_0129-0134.pdf

and Italy

https://www.academia.edu/3428615/Un..._di_Aquileia_Instrumentum_XXXV_2012_pp._25-26

 

Private message sent.

 

Interesting links. The cup weights look different than my barrel weights. I thought cup weights were more recent (middle ages, and out of my area of interest).
I have a copy of the book and have read the Roman parts often. Kisch mentions (references) Karl Pink often, including the part about the temple of Castor. I have looked for a copy of Pink's book on line, but have not found a copy for sale. It looks like the ANS might have a copy. I will contact them next week. Unfortunately the book is in German. Fortunately, pictures translate well!

Römische und Byzantinische Gewichte in Osterreichischen Sammlungen. by Pink, Karl.​

I looked in Pondera for weights with C...., but did not find any. A general search for weights with C... did not find any either.

 

Here is the full story from Luciani and Lucchelli on the Castor weights - cup shaped ("ciotola") and otherwise:

https://www.academia.edu/25658432/Pondera_exacta_ad_Castoris

Ross G.

 

@rrdenarius many thanks for (all the) scans from Kisch. Most kind!

It must be near 20 years since I looked at a copy (in a library) - but I now see Abe books in the US is near giving away copies (all ex library I suspect) so I just stumped up the postage for one.

Just one more example of reference libraries dumping books when the web is not providing an adequate alternative - at least - as far as English readership goes......

Rob T

 

Thanks Ross, These cup/bucket weights seem to be specific to bullion dealing in late medieval times - so perhaps the Roman antecedents were the same?

But even so a disappointing lack of internal consistency in the sets (unless there is damage?). There are ancient sets of ring weights from China of about the same date which are all near spot on as I recall - so it can be done, but rarely is.....

Any thought about whether the problems of discrepancy seem to be due to incompetence, or rather, due to dishonesty?

Rob T

 

Hi Rob,

I suspect some of the heavy weights are missing handles.

Ross G.

 

Good point - might well explain the problems at the top end with the Brimeux, Aquileia and Munich sets.

But the two really posh sets - Feldkirch and Mainz - both have wonky 2 uncia......

Rob T